• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Team Ninja Explains Why Wo Long Has Only One Difficulty Level, Says It’s Not an Easy Game

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member


If you’re looking to play Team Ninja’s upcoming action game Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty on “easy” mode, that’s not an option, as the game only has one difficulty level, and Team Ninja explains why.

Yamagiwa-san: We’re thinking it’s ‘good’ to have one set difficulty so that everyone has the same experience of overcoming a really intense obstacle and they all have that feeling of achievement, like I did it. But the caveat there is giving players all different ways that they can do that.

So you could talk to your friends and say hey I beat this boss and this is how I did it, you want to talk to people and go online because you really want to have communication with them.

It’s really important to keep the challenge the same and giving players different ways to overcome it. Wo Long is not an easy game by any means but we’re working to give players as much freedom and agency to play it as they want, overcome obstacles in their own way.

One thing that comes to mind is the morale system. You have a morale rank and as you keep increasing it you get stronger and you can use that to choose which enemies to fight, or raise it up so you can take on a harder enemy and maybe they’ll be a little bit easier now that you’re stronger.

You can also level up your character like a traditional action RPG and get stronger that way.

There’s multiplayer as well, so you can get online with your friends, two other people so a total of three online and then take on bosses as a group.

We’re really giving players their own ways to be able to tackle all these things, that’s really important to Wo Long’s game design.

 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Difficulty levels have been in gaming as long as I can remember.

To me, a dev that doesn't want to add a handful of basic difficulty levels like Easy, Normal, Hard is just lazy as hell.

All you got to do is adjust basic stuff like HP, speed and damage power, tweak the enemy frequency, and tweak the enemy attack patterns.

Cant be that hard. Even Atari 2600 had difficulty levels in games and probably the archaic systems before it had them too.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Since when do developers have to justify the difficulty of their games?

Since game journalists started having an emotional breakdown every time they are filtered by anything more challenging than a tutorial.

I mean, they're not the only ones. We constantly have people here begging for easy modes in Souls games etc. People who don't understand what the essence of these games is (they get really angry if you tell them this) and who feel entitled to have every game adapt to their preferences rather than what the creators intended the experience to be like.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Difficulty levels have been in gaming as long as I can remember.

To me, a dev that doesn't want to add a handful of basic difficulty levels like Easy, Normal, Hard is just lazy as hell.

All you got to do is adjust basic stuff like HP, speed and damage power, tweak the enemy frequency, and tweak the enemy attack patterns.

Cant be that hard. Even Atari 2600 had difficulty levels in games and probably the archaic systems before it had them too.
Yeah, I can't for the life of me actually understand how it would even matter.

That said, Team Ninja puts in way more effort than some other devs I could name on actually balancing their games and having a more fairly balanced difficulty curve with attacks that have tells. And they have the ability to summon NPCs in Wo Long which, in the demo, when I tried it was super strong. He basically never died the whole level and survived the boss even. And you can heal them as well if you have the Wood Spirit. I'd suggest people try that.

As far as this guy's answer though, I don't really buy it. Ninja Gaiden had Ninja Dog, Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard and Master Ninja. It didn't detract from the game at all, and actually made it more fun to replay as they had substantial alterations at each difficulty level.

I dare anyone to actually explain to me why that was fine for Ninja Gaiden but can't work for a Souls-like. It's just trendy bullshit.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I mean, they're not the only ones. We constantly have people here begging for easy modes in Souls games etc. People who don't understand what the essence of these games is (they get really angry if you tell them this) and who feel entitled to have every game adapt to their preferences rather than what the creators intended the experience to be like.
I dont play action games much anymore, but when I was playing tons of gaming every night when I was younger, I'd almost always set the game on Hard mode before I even played my first game. I liked playing games at harder difficulties back then.

But never did I think "Oh shit, there's going to be some gamers out there who play on Easy and Normal, now I feel like shit other gamers might beat the game faster than I do. These gamers are ruining the essence of the game".

Who cares if other gamers play on different difficulty levels. And that goes for gamers playing either lower or harder difficulty settings.
 
Last edited:
It’s really important to keep the challenge the same and giving players different ways to overcome it...

if i ask a roomful of people, of different ages & physiques, to, one by one, transfer a full case of copy paper from one end of the room to the other, is that presenting everyone with an equal challenge? because, even with the ability to use a hand truck or a dolly, it's gonna be much harder for some than for others, if not impossible...

'git gud' is fine, if that's the developer's choice. but pretending it keeps 'the challenge the same'? c'mon, now...
 

GHG

Member
"Not everything is for everyone." Period.

Won't stop the same handful of crybabies moaning about this while everyone else is having fun with the game.

You would think they'd get over it considering the fact that 99.9% of games out there do in fact have difficulty modes. Not like there aren't plenty of other things for them to play if that's the arbitrary hill they decide to die on.
 
Last edited:

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
thanks to this demo im not going to get this, reminds me way too much of Sekiro, i prefer games with a balance approach like souls.
Seems like you have to rely on counter and the game encourages you to be very aggresive, which is not my liking.
 

BlackTron

Member
Difficulty levels have been in gaming as long as I can remember.

To me, a dev that doesn't want to add a handful of basic difficulty levels like Easy, Normal, Hard is just lazy as hell.

All you got to do is adjust basic stuff like HP, speed and damage power, tweak the enemy frequency, and tweak the enemy attack patterns.

Cant be that hard. Even Atari 2600 had difficulty levels in games and probably the archaic systems before it had them too.

I really don't think this is about the level of work involved in adding the feature.

Like this isn't a BS excuse like when Nintendo would say we don't have online because we think couch gaming is better. Even if couch gaming is better, what difference does that make? The real reason is that they couldn't be arsed to do it.

But Team Ninja really means that this is how they want their game to work, they don't think the option is good for their game. We can disagree with that but it's definitely not laziness.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Won't stop the same handful of crybabies moaning about this while everyone else is having fun with the game.

You would think they'd get over it considering the fact that 99.9% of games out there do in fact have difficulty modes. Not like there aren't plenty of other things for them to play if that's the arbitrary hill they decide to die on.
What is the downside of having difficulty options?
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I got to a level 28 in the demo. Went through it 3 times. Once you get the hang of things you can jump off rocks to instant kill enemies from behind, headshot instakill, and the boss isn’t tough unless you skip parrying. I would jump down on those tigers or worse case scenario use a summon. I’ve also played these games and deaths just happen. It’s never impossible.
 

GHG

Member
What is the downside of having difficulty options?

Time and resources from the developers that they have decided would be better spent elsewhere. It's up to them to create the type of experience they want, their game, their rules.

On the flipside you are also free to skip the game if it's not to your liking. None of this is complicated stuff.

To demand every game has difficulty options or is suited to you in whatever way necessary is just peak entitlement.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Since when do developers have to justify the difficulty of their games?
Since bigoted game journalists threw handicapped people under the bus for their false altruistic crusade.

Meanwhile, some of those very people with disabilities are beating souls games with their toes.

With.

Their.

Toes.

Meanwhile, games “journalism”

 
Last edited:

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Time and resources from the developers that they have decided would be better spent elsewhere. It's up to them to create the type of experience they want, their game, their rules.

On the flipside you are also free to skip the game if it's not to your liking. None of this is complicated stuff.

To demand every game has difficulty options or is suited to you in whatever way necessary is just peak entitlement.
Do you really think that's true though? I can't honestly imagine that it takes many resources if you just want to do a barebones difficulty option. Could literally just tweak damage numbers, health, and potions available and call it a day. Probably would take a programmer 10 minutes to do it if they didn't want to put any effort into it. So no, I don't think that excuse is very believable.

I can skip the game? Yes, I'm aware. But I also think it's ridiculous to act like any criticism of a game or request is entitlement. Why do we even have discussion about games on here then? Why do we request stable framerates and good stories, and good animations, and fast loading times, and less bugs? Is that all entitlement if anyone says anything at all? Everyone should just permanently stop speaking about games and just buy or don't buy? No, obviously no one believes this either. It's not entitlement at all.

So as far as I can tell, there is really no downside to having some basic difficulty options. Unless you can think of a better reason?
 

GHG

Member
Do you really think that's true though? I can't honestly imagine that it takes many resources if you just want to do a barebones difficulty option. Could literally just tweak damage numbers, health, and potions available and call it a day. Probably would take a programmer 10 minutes to do it if they didn't want to put any effort into it. So no, I don't think that excuse is very believable.

I can skip the game? Yes, I'm aware. But I also think it's ridiculous to act like any criticism of a game or request is entitlement. Why do we even have discussion about games on here then? Why do we request stable framerates and good stories, and good animations, and fast loading times, and less bugs? Is that all entitlement if anyone says anything at all? Everyone should just permanently stop speaking about games and just buy or don't buy? No, obviously no one believes this either. It's not entitlement at all.

So as far as I can tell, there is really no downside to having some basic difficulty options. Unless you can think of a better reason?

Yeh it takes 10 minutes, it plays like shit and/or is unbalanced, morons complain, the players don't get the experience the developers intended, everyone loses. They literally outline it in the interview, they want everyone who plays the game to have a consistent experience. The moment you have people fucking about with difficulty options instead of exploring the mechanics and options the game gives you (different builds, spirit summons, NPC helpers, co-op, etc) you end up with wild inconsistencies.

We've seen this time and time again across the entertainment industry where when they attempt to make something for everyone nobody ends up happy because it ends up being a sloppy unfocused mess. Meanwhile highly focused experiences (like elden ring for example) manage to find their audience and are great successes because of it.

These guys made 2 Nioh games, they know what they are doing. Don't go to a steakhouse if you're a vegetarian.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Do you really think that's true though? I can't honestly imagine that it takes many resources if you just want to do a barebones difficulty option. Could literally just tweak damage numbers, health, and potions available and call it a day. Probably would take a programmer 10 minutes to do it if they didn't want to put any effort into it. So no, I don't think that excuse is very believable.

I can skip the game? Yes, I'm aware. But I also think it's ridiculous to act like any criticism of a game or request is entitlement. Why do we even have discussion about games on here then? Why do we request stable framerates and good stories, and good animations, and fast loading times, and less bugs? Is that all entitlement if anyone says anything at all? Everyone should just permanently stop speaking about games and just buy or don't buy? No, obviously no one believes this either. It's not entitlement at all.

So as far as I can tell, there is really no downside to having some basic difficulty options. Unless you can think of a better reason?
The reason to me is because they want to give the game/franchise a PR image of being for hardcore gamers. That's it. They are going for that niche crowd of action gamers who want a challenging game who get bothered by other gamers blowing past them enjoying the game on Easy or Normal. It's for that subset of gamers who think they are better gamers than the rest and feel they've earned the right in life to play a game only their reflexes can handle.

The vast majority of games going back to Atari have difficulty options so it cant be hard to do. Some modern day games even go the extra mile for customization and have accessibility and colour blind options, custom button configs, different camera angles and FOV sliders.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
The reason to me is because they want to give the game/franchise a PR image of being for hardcore gamers. That's it. They are going for that niche crowd of action gamers who want a challenging game who get bothered by other gamers blowing past them enjoying the game on Easy or Normal. It's for that subset of gamers who think they are better gamers than the rest and feel they've earned the right in life to play a game only their reflexes can handle.

The vast majority of games going back to Atari have difficulty options so it cant be hard to do. Some modern day games even go the extra mile for customization and have accessibility and colour blind options, custom button configs, different camera angles and FOV sliders.
100%. There's literally no other reason except that it's trendy. Their very last game has like 5 difficulty options, and there's 30 classes, multiplayer, tons of gear, tons of different build options. The only thing that really changes is the damage numbers. This is Stranger in Paradise. Stranger in Paradise is literally built on Nioh as much as Wo Long is. Nothing gets messy or unbalanced. It's literally just some tweaked damage numbers.

Yeh it takes 10 minutes, it plays like shit and/or is unbalanced, morons complain, the players don't get the experience the developers intended, everyone loses. They literally outline it in the interview, they want everyone who plays the game to have a consistent experience. The moment you have people fucking about with difficulty options instead of exploring the mechanics and options the game gives you (different builds, spirit summons, NPC helpers, co-op, etc) you end up with wild inconsistencies.

We've seen this time and time again across the entertainment industry where when they attempt to make something for everyone nobody ends up happy because it ends up being a sloppy unfocused mess. Meanwhile highly focused experiences (like elden ring for example) manage to find their audience and are great successes because of it.

These guys made 2 Nioh games, they know what they are doing. Don't go to a steakhouse if you're a vegetarian.
What about someone who likes steak and goes to a steakhouse but tries to ask how to cook the steak but gets told it's only cooked one way? There's no wild inconsistencies from having basic difficulty options. It's literally the simplest thing that's been in games since games started. The hardest of the hardcore action games have all had difficulty options. Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, almost everything. It wasn't some mass produced product that was watered down. It just had basic difficulty options. There was literally no downside.
 

GHG

Member
The reason to me is because they want to give the game/franchise a PR image of being for hardcore gamers. That's it. They are going for that niche crowd of action gamers who want a challenging game who get bothered by other gamers blowing past them enjoying the game on Easy or Normal. It's for that subset of gamers who think they are better gamers than the rest and feel they've earned the right in life to play a game only their reflexes can handle.

cure GIF


Meanwhile:


What about someone who likes steak and goes to a steakhouse but tries to ask how to cook the steak but gets told it's only cooked one way? There's no wild inconsistencies from having basic difficulty options. It's literally the simplest thing that's been in games since games started. The hardest of the hardcore action games have all had difficulty options. Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, almost everything. It wasn't some mass produced product that was watered down. It just had basic difficulty options. There was literally no downside.

They decided there is a downside to their developmemt workflow which would negatively impact the final product if they decided to do otherwise.

This discussion is vapid. Play something else, it's not that difficult.
 
Last edited:

Ailynn

Faith - Hope - Love
If it's a game I'm not really heavily invested in, I don't mind playing through the game on the easier setting, especially if there are no difficulty-based achievements.

On games I had been highly anticipating that initially don't/didn't have an "easy" setting (such as Metroid Dread or Elden Ring), a hard game is welcome so long as it's fair...which Metroid Dread AND Elden Ring absolutely are. Metroid is made easier by gathering as many upgrades as possible and learning boss patterns, and in Elden Ring you can become crazy overpowered through leveling up and intelligent combat builds.

I like it when games have an easier setting in most games, but the experience of 100% completing the game is NO WAY as satisfying an experience.
 
Last edited:

Punished Miku

Gold Member
They decided there is a downside to their developmemt workflow which would negatively impact the final product if they decided to do otherwise.

This discussion is vapid. Play something else, it's not that difficult.
It's not vapid. This discussion is literally the entire point of the thread. No offense but if you just showed up in this thread to tell everyone how stupid they are to even discuss it, then why are you even commenting in this thread?

I'm able to have a conversation about more than just my personal circumstances. I beat the demo just fine, multiple times, and I'm excited about Wo Long. It's not about me, or what I play. I don't need an easy mode for this particular game.

This is about why developers are choosing to omit basic difficulty options, which have been in games since games began. And they didn't say anything about negatively impacting development workflow. He talked about community, or wanting everyone to have the same experience. And honestly I think that is a BS reason. I think StreetsofBeige StreetsofBeige nailed it. FROM does it now and they want to be trendy and appeal to the FROM crowd. There's really not much of a reason otherwise. Literally their last game had difficulty options, and is also based on Nioh. So they didn't care about community for Stranger in Paradise? Does anyone even care what difficulty level ANYONE plays on?
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
cure GIF


Meanwhile:

The vast majority of games have difficulty levels. Sports games even have tons of AI sliders. So it cant be that hard to add them. Games with zero difficulty sliders are the minority in gaming.

Your GIF post proves my answer. You dont like it when gamers play at easier difficulty levels.

As I said before, I used to play tons of games at Hard too (but I dont play action slashers anymore). That never sapped my enjoyment from playing the game even though other gamers might even go down to Novice or Easiest modes. I play at my skill level. They play at their skill level. Who cares.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Does anyone even care what difficulty level ANYONE plays on?
Some do.

The assumption is any game with only one difficulty level is designed to be hard. So if they beat the game, they can brag they did it on the dev's original terms, while nobody beat the game on an easier mode. Because when they think other gamers have fun on Easy or Normal mode, it's kills their fun as they are playing at Hard.

It's a similar mentality to ecosystem/cross plat gamers. When a game is on their platform, it's a form of winning. When a game is ported to another platform and some random dude 5000 km away plays the game on another hunk of metal and plastic, there's a part of their brain that red flags that as a demoralizer and suddenly their fun factor drops when the very game they are playing is still on their hardware to play like nothing happened. Nobody took away their game (or difficulty level). All the devs are doing is adding options for others, and somehow that kills them inside.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Some do.

The assumption is any game with only one difficulty level is designed to be hard. So if they beat the game, they can brag they did it on the dev's original terms, while nobody beat the game on an easier mode. Because when they think other gamers have fun on Easy or Normal mode, it's kills their fun as they are playing at Hard.

It's a similar mentality to ecosystem/cross plat gamers. When a game is on their platform, it's a form of winning. When a game is ported to another platform and some random dude 5000 km away plays the game on another hunk of metal and plastic, there's a part of their brain that red flags that as a demoralizer and suddenly their fun factor drops when the very game they are playing is still on their hardware to play like nothing happened. Nobody took away their game (or difficulty level). All the devs are doing is adding options for others, and somehow that kills them inside.
I guess that does make sense. It is very similar to the kind of console fanboyism we see so much of. It's just "FROM Software / No difficulty" fanboyism.
 

GHG

Member
Your GIF post proves my answer. You dont like it when gamers play at easier difficulty levels.

Nope. I like it when games are well crafted and well balanced experiences. There is a much greater chance of that happening when a developer is focused on fine tuning their whole game and it's various systems around a single difficulty level.

It's nothing to do with who can get through it or not because if they meet their goal then everyone should be able to get through it in some way shape or form.

You're drawing incorrect conclusions from these discussions and that is shaping your assumptions.

It's not vapid. This discussion is literally the entire point of the thread. No offense but if you just showed up in this thread to tell everyone how stupid they are to even discuss it, then why are you even commenting in this thread?

I'm able to have a conversation about more than just my personal circumstances. I beat the demo just fine, multiple times, and I'm excited about Wo Long. It's not about me, or what I play. I don't need an easy mode for this particular game.

This is about why developers are choosing to omit basic difficulty options, which have been in games since games began. And they didn't say anything about negatively impacting development workflow. He talked about community, or wanting everyone to have the same experience. And honestly I think that is a BS reason. I think StreetsofBeige StreetsofBeige nailed it. FROM does it now and they want to be trendy and appeal to the FROM crowd. There's really not much of a reason otherwise. Literally their last game had difficulty options, and is also based on Nioh. So they didn't care about community for Stranger in Paradise? Does anyone even care what difficulty level ANYONE plays on?

I'm here because I agree with what the developers have said in their interview (I'm also of the opinion that they needn't explain themselves) but yet I've unfortunately stumbled across the usual nonsense that threads on this topic tend to get filled with. Of course it's also a workflow decision. Do you think they have unlimited time and resources or something? They need to decide how best to spend their time during the development process to create the best product possible in accordance with their vision.

Stranger of paradise was a flop and had major balancing issues from what I've read. I'll play it for myself eventually (once it hits steam and goes on sale most likely) to see if I come to the same conclusions but I'm glad they are returning to a formula that has served them well for their previous two titles.

If this discussion is not about you then who exactly are you white knighting for? I'm curious to know who you think these people out there are that are most likely yet to even experience the game and will need these so called difficulty modes?
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
What if like...my agency and the clever way I overcome challenges is usually putting it on Easy Mode? WHY AREN'T YOU RESPECTING THAT FREEDOM? MR. WO LONG ASIAN GUY.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Nope. I like it when games are well crafted and well balanced experiences. There is a much greater chance of that happening when a developer is focused on fine tuning their whole game and it's various systems around a single difficulty level.

It's nothing to do with who can get through it or not because if they meet their goal then everyone should be able to get through it in some way shape or form.

You're drawing incorrect conclusions from these discussions and that is shaping your assumptions.
Fair enough.

But what if the default difficulty level a dev makes is too easy for gamers with good skills? There's no harder mode for them to try.
 
They shouldn’t have to justify it but I wish there were more melee action games that weren’t Souls derivatives.

Feels like an entire genre was replaced with games that require you to be on your shit at all times.

I’m just a little burned out on the new genre.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Nope. I like it when games are well crafted and well balanced experiences. There is a much greater chance of that happening when a developer is focused on fine tuning their whole game and it's various systems around a single difficulty level.

It's nothing to do with who can get through it or not because if they meet their goal then everyone should be able to get through it in some way shape or form.

You're drawing incorrect conclusions from these discussions and that is shaping your assumptions.



I'm here because I agree with what the developers have said in their interview (I'm also of the opinion that they needn't explain themselves) but yet I've unfortunately stumbled across the usual nonsense that threads on this topic tend to get filled with. Of course it's also a workflow decision. Do you think they have unlimited time and resources or something? They need to decide how best to spend their time during the development process to create the best product possible in accordance with their vision.

Stranger of paradise was a flop and had major balancing issues from what I've read. I'll play it for myself eventually (once it hits steam and goes on sale most likely) to see if I come to the same conclusions but I'm glad they are returning to a formula that has served them well for their previous two titles.

If this discussion is not about you then who exactly are you white knighting for? I'm curious to know who you think these people out there are that are most likely yet to even experience the game and will need these so called difficulty modes?
They literally never said a word about prioritizing workflow. You've completely made that up.

Yes, it's their vision. Yes, they have the right to make that. But yes, we also have the right to ask for what we want as consumers or ask them questions in an interview, and it's not vapid or entitled. That's what we do on literally every game ever, constantly talking about which elements we want in the game to be improved.

Stranger in Paradise is not poorly balanced. No idea what you're talking about. Like I've been saying, it barely even changes. Just some tweaks to the damage numbers.

Why even ask me who I am arguing for? I'm discussing the topic. Obviously I'm talking about other gamers who may want to play action games on an easier setting, like gamers have done since action games were literally first invented. Obviously. Because why wouldn't I want others to play it if they're interested in the game? What do I gain by advocating for their exclusion? Nothing. It's irrational.
 
Last edited:

Bernardougf

Member
Cry baby generation of entitlement... not everything is made for you ... I absolutely loved uncharted 1 to 3 and last of us , best game of that generation by far and GOAT contender, but I didnt liked uncharted 4 and never played and never will play Last of Us 2 after seeing what they have done with the story and characters, fact is ND dont make games for my taste anymore, but that are a truck load of people that love their games still, too bad for me but it is what it is, i dont have to play their games and people that dont want to play hard (one difficult) games dont have to play them .. simple as that
 
Last edited:

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Cry baby generation of entitlement... not everything is made for you ... I absolutely loved uncharted 1 to 3 and last of us , best game of that generation by far and GOAT contender, but I didnt liked uncharted 4 and never played and never will play Last of Us 2 after seeing what they have done with the story and characters, fact is ND dont make games for my taste anymore, but that are a truck load of people that love their games still, too bad for me but it is what it is, i dont have to play their games and people that dont want to play hard (one difficult) games dont have to play them .. simple as that
But it's not entitled when people ask for 4K resolution, or stable framerates, or next gen super expensive games, or for Nintendo to release a new system, or literally every single other thing people bring up on the forum. The only thing that's entitled is asking for basic difficulty options. But it's not entitled to ask for PC configuration options, or alternate language audio tracks, or anything else. Just difficulty. No entitled to ask for the abandonment of cross gen, or for the Series S to not exist. Just difficulty options.

Ever wondered why that is?
 
Last edited:

GHG

Member
Fair enough.

But what if the default difficulty level a dev makes is too easy for gamers with good skills? There's no harder mode for them to try.

Then players looking for a more challenging experience will simply skip it and play something that's more to their liking. Most mature and rational adults won't spend their time with something they are personally not enjoying, especially when it's just an entertainment product. It's also the players responsibilty to figure out if a game is going to be suited to their tastes prior to purchasing, there are hundreds of games out there an we all have limited time.

They literally never said a word about prioritizing workflow. You've completely made that up.

Yes, it's their vision. Yes, they have the right to make that. But yes, we also have the right to ask for what we want as consumers or ask them questions in an interview, and it's not vapid or entitled. That's what we do on literally every game ever, constantly talking about which elements we want in the game to be improved.

Stranger in Paradise is not poorly balanced. No idea what you're talking about. Like I've been saying, it barely even changes. Just some tweaks to the damage numbers.

Why even ask me who I am arguing for? I'm discussing the topic. Obviously I'm talking about other gamers who may want to play action games on an easier setting, like gamers have done since action games were literally first invented. Obviously. Because why wouldn't I want others to play it if they're interested in the game? What do I gain by advocating for their exclusion? Nothing. It's irrational.

Sigh...

Miyazaki himself has referenced this himself in previous interviews:

I think this did have at least some effect, but there were some problems with the formula we used, and it was an extremely difficult thing to fine-tune. We only had so many resources we could devote to the balancing process, so it wound up being a bit of a problem.


Now imagine them having to do that even more times over for various difficulty modes all because you're personally concerned about some imaginary gamers who might be incapable of playing their games or simply moving on to play something that's better suited to them.

I'm only telling you what I've read about SoP from people I follow who are fans of souls-like games - the job system and how that interacts with the various difficulty modes was the complaint I came across.

Anyway, as always these discussions go nowhere and it's always a small handful of entitled people screeching into the void making up wild accusations against people who do enjoy these types of games. Rightly so, developers who have a very specific artistic vision and want to create games for a specific audience aren't going to listen, they have no reason to considering they know exactly what they want to make (and the fact that when done right these games sell well and are enjoyed by millions of gamers).

P. S. This is a topic on game design, not technical standards or any of the other false equivalences you've brought up throughout this thread.
 
Last edited:

Saber

Member
Since when do developers have to justify the difficulty of their games?

Since when people started complaining they can't play the game, they want more acessible, don't have time for games, "options are cool", etc.
I would say it started with Dark Souls games where people want to play/beat the game without really learn how to.

I know people already answered with valid answers, but its just sad video-games are no longer a hobby for people.
 
Last edited:

Punished Miku

Gold Member
P. S. This is a topic on game design, not technical standards or any of the other false equivalences you've brought up throughout this thread.
Why would that matter? Anyone who asks for difficulty options just so they can play a game they've paid money for gets called entitled. Why?

There are so many other things that gamers ask for that are infinitely less important than someone being able to just complete a game they paid money for. Why in the world do we keep hearing that they're entitled?

Have you ever wondered why that is? People asking for cross gen to die don't get called entitled. People asking for next gen games pushing super expensive tech and innovation don't get called entitled. No one tells them to stop asking for that so that devs can save resources. Have you ever wondered why that is? Why only difficulty, when gamers ask for so many other super specific things all the time and have extremely strict demands on frame rate and resolution, and contorller options, and monitor options, and audio options, and tons of other elements? Why would no one even think to call them entitled, but we hear it every single time in these threads about basic difficulty options?

Because it's a fanboyish cult. It's total bullshit.

A quote from Miyazaki talking about balancing is not really answering any of my questions. They didn't have resources for engine development or maximizing load times, or hitting a consistent frame rate on Bloodborne either. But no one calls them entitled for still asking for it to this day, constantly. All the time. Over and over. Every single time the game is mentioned. FROM games are some of the most poorly balanced games I've ever played. Team Ninja does not have this problem. Show me a Team Ninja quote talking about strained resources.
 

Y0ssarian

Banned
Gatekeeping in videogames is very important as it is an effective deterrent for keeping (fuckin) normies who were too lazy to learn the game, out of these games and ruining them.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom