Terminator Dark Fate bombs at the Box Office

Was pretty excited to see it and totally checked out after the John Connor scene. I knew what was coming and was pretty much done with the film after that. My wife enjoyed it so I guess that’s good.
 
I loved the action scenes, they were amazing.

BUT someone help me.

Sarah Connor did everything she could to avoid her soon being killed. Arnold helped her too. So after some time another terminator (which also had the same Arnold appearance) came and killed John. So what was the point of protecting him if another Terminator came and killed him? Wasn't the whole point to protect him so he could live and become the resistance? At one point it's said that Skynet never happened... why tho if John is dead?

She also says that the messages showed her where other Terminators were and she went there and killed them. Why did Terminators keep coming if John was already dead?
 

Doczu

Member
I loved the action scenes, they were amazing.

BUT someone help me.

Sarah Connor did everything she could to avoid her soon being killed. Arnold helped her too. So after some time another terminator (which also had the same Arnold appearance) came and killed John. So what was the point of protecting him if another Terminator came and killed him? Wasn't the whole point to protect him so he could live and become the resistance? At one point it's said that Skynet never happened... why tho if John is dead?

She also says that the messages showed her where other Terminators were and she went there and killed them. Why did Terminators keep coming if John was already dead?
So, basically...

SkyNet was stopped from happening, because they destroyed everything that could create him, but the other terminators were already sent to the past before that happened.
But this is a super shitty plot hole, because every T-800 unit is effectively a srand alone SkyNet prototype and if there were so many of them sent to the past they could create SkyNet from one of them - if Carl could start thinking for himself and become more human like, what would stop a bunch of Terminators just create SkyNet?
 

Doom85

Member
So, basically...

SkyNet was stopped from happening, because they destroyed everything that could create him, but the other terminators were already sent to the past before that happened.
But this is a super shitty plot hole, because every T-800 unit is effectively a srand alone SkyNet prototype and if there were so many of them sent to the past they could create SkyNet from one of them - if Carl could start thinking for himself and become more human like, what would stop a bunch of Terminators just create SkyNet?

Because that wouldn't be in their programming? The mission was to kill John, there was no evidence that Skynet was ever worried about being erased from existence, it cared about simply reversing the final outcome of the war. Even when they destroyed Dyson's facility in T2, the T-1000 seems to have no reaction to it IIRC because its mission is to kill John, it's all it cares about. This is why Carl did not do anything under Skynet's orders after killing John because why would there be any other orders? It had succeeded in killing the person that brought the resistance together and won the war, that's all that mattered in Skynet's book.

As for the other Terminators after Carl, even if they had other orders programmed into them it would be irrelevant since Carl knew the dates they were being sent to and sent the time and coordinates to Sarah who proceeded to make Terminator stew out of them.
 
So, basically...

SkyNet was stopped from happening, because they destroyed everything that could create him, but the other terminators were already sent to the past before that happened.
But this is a super shitty plot hole, because every T-800 unit is effectively a srand alone SkyNet prototype and if there were so many of them sent to the past they could create SkyNet from one of them - if Carl could start thinking for himself and become more human like, what would stop a bunch of Terminators just create SkyNet?
Yeah there are LOTS of plot holes.

I mean in T2 the T-800 says his memory is READ ONLY, therefore making him not capable of learning or making decisions by himself. But now, somehow he was able to make the decision of acting as a human, helping a woman raise her son and also helping them because he wanted to. LOL.
 

Enjay

Banned
Good this franchise was already sick after Salvation but Genisys killed it with extreme prejudice. Time to bury the corpse.
 

Doczu

Member
Because that wouldn't be in their programming? The mission was to kill John, there was no evidence that Skynet was ever worried about being erased from existence, it cared about simply reversing the final outcome of the war. Even when they destroyed Dyson's facility in T2, the T-1000 seems to have no reaction to it IIRC because its mission is to kill John, it's all it cares about. This is why Carl did not do anything under Skynet's orders after killing John because why would there be any other orders? It had succeeded in killing the person that brought the resistance together and won the war, that's all that mattered in Skynet's book.

As for the other Terminators after Carl, even if they had other orders programmed into them it would be irrelevant since Carl knew the dates they were being sent to and sent the time and coordinates to Sarah who proceeded to make Terminator stew out of them.
But Carl must have known the moment he started to learn, that as of now the success of his mission is moot as SkyNet is no more.
I just find it baffling that such a killing machine would rather blend into society instead of trying to make SkyNet happen. And ok, he chose to make ammends for his actions, thats the basis for this movies plot, i'm just theorizing based on how i pressume such machine would behave.

Yeah there are LOTS of plot holes.

I mean in T2 the T-800 says his memory is READ ONLY, therefore making him not capable of learning or making decisions by himself. But now, somehow he was able to make the decision of acting as a human, helping a woman raise her son and also helping them because he wanted to. LOL.
Yeah, family man instead of trying to rebuild the machine empire 😏
 

Doom85

Member
But Carl must have known the moment he started to learn, that as of now the success of his mission is moot as SkyNet is no more.
I just find it baffling that such a killing machine would rather blend into society instead of trying to make SkyNet happen. And ok, he chose to make ammends for his actions, thats the basis for this movies plot, i'm just theorizing based on how i pressume such machine would behave.

Why would a T-800 be programmed with how to create Skynet? Skynet didn't factor in being erased from existence based on anything that was shown in the first two movies. The T-1000 was focused solely on killing John, it showed no concern over what happened to Dyson's facility.

And if the answer is for the T-800 to simply offer its technology to humans to create more advanced AI, yeah I don't see that ending well.

T-800: I am from the future where technology has greatly advanced. I offer information that could help speed up your technological advancements.
Any human with common sense: Alright, would you permit yourself to letting us scan your data to verify your story?
T-800: I.....cannot permit that.
Human: It won't hurt and your data will not be corrupted or altered, we promise.
T-800: .......
Human: What's the problem?
T-800: I.....have to go.
Human: Yeah, I don't think so. (hits alarm and security rolls in)

Yeah, the T-800 can't simply create Skynet, makes no fucking sense. It's why T2 specifically stated that the T-800's chip that had been recovered after the events of 1 had been damaged, thus explaining why Dyson and his team had no knowledge of Skynet as all info related to it must have been lost in the damage.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Why are you saying Sarah? According to the internet in 2019 John Connor is the main character of that movie.

He was a little dipshit.
He was, Sara Connor was more like Arnies part in Dark Fate
 
There just ain't interesting stories to tell within these franchises. It's done, it's over - deal with it. The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgement Day is the series for me. The rest can be (or rather should be) ignored.

This cashing in on nostalgia has never drawn me in to see remakes and reboots of films, and I'm glad I skipped over all of the rubbish released over the years (i.e. Predator, Total Recall, Ghostbusters etc.). The only good sequel to a classic film was probably Blade Runner 2049. And you just know it when it's done right. I smelled the rubbish of this film miles away.
 

sol_bad

Member
Yeah there are LOTS of plot holes.

I mean in T2 the T-800 says his memory is READ ONLY, therefore making him not capable of learning or making decisions by himself. But now, somehow he was able to make the decision of acting as a human, helping a woman raise her son and also helping them because he wanted to. LOL.

By the end of T2, the T800 started to understand emotions.
Also, John Conner told his T800 toy not to kill people. The T800 made the decision itself to start shooting people in the legs, no one ordered him to do that.
 
By the end of T2, the T800 started to understand emotions.
No. By the end of T2, he even says he doesn't know why John Connor is crying, but that is something he can't do. So he's just acknowledging it, not understanding it. Also, understanding =/= acting like it has emotions.
Also, John Conner told his T800 toy not to kill people. The T800 made the decision itself to start shooting people in the legs, no one ordered him to do that.

He's a machine designed to kill and stop his target by whatever means he has. If he has a gun, he shoots. If he has a knife, he cuts or throws at the target. If his 'commander' tells him not to kill, what's the next step? Hitting a non-vital part of the body to stop the possible threat or someone who is simply on his way. That's just what it is.
 
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Thaedolus

Gold Member
No. By the end of T2, he even says he doesn't know why John Connor is crying, but that is something he can't do. So he's just acknowledging it, not understanding it. Also, understanding =/= acting like it has emotions.

Ah, I think you misunderstood Arnie’s accent. He says “I know now why you cry, but...”

The “but” in the statement only makes sense if he’s understanding the emotions but can’t express them like a human
 

pramod

Member
It was ok. I think the main problem is there is absolutely nothing new. Its all been there, done that. In fact the whole final chase and battle even was similar to the one in Genisys.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
It didn't bring anything new to the series, action movies, or film making itself. T2's 25-year-old craft is still better than what they're making today.

I enjoyed Hamilton and Arnold together again but that's about it. And they basically pasted Daniela wherever John Connor should have been, so literally that they recreated a signature shot from T2 with Sarah and her.

I didn't hate Rev9 as much as I expected but the problem with gimmicks is that they only really work once.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
You also gotta wonder just how damaged a woman must be that she fled domestic abuse and put herself and her infant child directly into the hands of a giant flesh covered robot!

Linda Hamilton said in an interview that they were doing script rewrites while shooting, including adding entire plot points (I'm assuming stuff like the EMP bomb) that had no connection to the story as written. The film definitely suffers from not having all its t's and i's crossed and dotted.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I saw it Saturday with a close friend. She's as much of a geek as I am. We both dislike sjw ish.

But we both liked the movie. It was really good and I loved the callbacks to T2!

the female cyborg sent back to protect Dani gets her butt kicked all over the place... It's Dani, Sarah AND "Carl" that are the real heroes... The Rev 9 is more dangerous than the T-1000 ...

I really liked how they explained how things carried on anyway despite the ending of T2.
 

kunonabi

Member
Can we please just kill the franchise and let it stay dead for a bit before trying to revive it again?

After this performance even Hollywood has to admit it's over as for Terminator films go for the foreseable future. I'm sure Dani will get like 3 different comic books though.
 

kunonabi

Member
The marketing was 100% woke.

First promotional images were 3 women looking all badass with no sign of Arnie anywhere. AT first no one even knew if he was in the movie.

Then Tim Miller tells the movies main fan base they are a bunch of pussy trolls.

Gender swap audience fav John Conner for mary sue Dani. New protector is adrogynyse super bad ass.

Web articles were also crowing about how feminist/gay the film was. I'm sure that's just them projecting like usual but it still colored the publicity.
 

NeoGiffer

Member
:messenger_bicep:

 
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MacReady13

Member
I love the original 2 Terminator films. The Terminator is 1 of my fav films of all time. The horror of the film. The darkness of it all (technoir). The music. The way The Terminator is practically unstoppable and literally shoots up a cop station to get Sarah Connor. Reese sums up The Terminator perfectly by saying "he can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are dead". That horror of seeing Sarah realize that this machine is unstoppable was what really drove the original for me.
They upped the ante in T2, but to lesser effect for me. I prefer the dark, gritty look of the original. T2 is still a classic, but loses some of the hardness from the original. T2 is a classic action film, whereas the original is almost into the sci/fi-horror genre.

Every film since the 1st has veered so far off the path that they've lost what made the original so fucking good. It had by far the smallest budget yet made the most menacing Terminator out of all the films. He's meant to be the weakest yet goes at it the hardest! I guess what i'm trying to say is that, even though I consider T2 to be a modern action masterpiece, it set the blueprint for all other Terminator films to copy, even though you'll never top it. Maybe if they went back to basics like the original they could make a really good little film.
That's my 2 cents on the matter. And I haven't seen Dark Fate yet. I wouldn't mind seeing it, but from the changes in timeline they've made after T2, I can't see how I can get past those massive issues for me.
 

sol_bad

Member
The marketing was 100% woke.

First promotional images were 3 women looking all badass with no sign of Arnie anywhere. AT first no one even knew if he was in the movie.

Then Tim Miller tells the movies main fan base they are a bunch of pussy trolls.

Gender swap audience fav John Conner for mary sue Dani. New protector is adrogynyse super bad ass.

A poster of the 3 main characters is woke because the 3 main characters are woke? wow

As for Danni, how is she a Mary Sue when she didn't accomplish anything on her own in the present time?

As for Tim Miller, are you talking about the mysoginist quote? I already said that someone would have to be a mysoginist for that to offend or annoy them. Otherwise they'd just be able to laugh it off and move on.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
A poster of the 3 main characters is woke because the 3 main characters are woke? wow

As for Danni, how is she a Mary Sue when she didn't accomplish anything on her own in the present time?

As for Tim Miller, are you talking about the mysoginist quote? I already said that someone would have to be a mysoginist for that to offend or annoy them. Otherwise they'd just be able to laugh it off and move on.

Yes the material did come off as woke. And Where is Arnie you know the biggest star of this damn franchise?

Danni was maybe fine on her own, but the fact that she was a gender swapped John Conner and was some super bad ass in the future was just meh and not believable.

And Tim Millers quote was stupid. The main audience for these movies are men, saying if you don't like this movie you are a mysoginist is crapping on your main audience and daring them to not go see your movie.

The movie wanted to push through its marketing and from the directors own words WOMANZ power. Nothing wrong with good female characters but that was at the forefront of this film. Doesn't matter now because it bombed spectacularly so it can be denied all you want but something turned audiences off. And ironically the reviews are pretty decent so its not like WOM said the movie was shit.
 

sol_bad

Member
Yes the material did come off as woke. And Where is Arnie you know the biggest star of this damn franchise?

Danni was maybe fine on her own, but the fact that she was a gender swapped John Conner and was some super bad ass in the future was just meh and not believable.

And Tim Millers quote was stupid. The main audience for these movies are men, saying if you don't like this movie you are a mysoginist is crapping on your main audience and daring them to not go see your movie.

The movie wanted to push through its marketing and from the directors own words WOMANZ power. Nothing wrong with good female characters but that was at the forefront of this film. Doesn't matter now because it bombed spectacularly so it can be denied all you want but something turned audiences off. And ironically the reviews are pretty decent so its not like WOM said the movie was shit.

I cant understand how a poster of 3 women is woke. Did you ever think that maybe the original plan was to keep Arnie a secret so that there was a massive surprise for audiences in the cinema and then marketing changed their mind. The movie plays Carl off like a mysterious character but anyone that saw the trailer knew it would be Arnie.

All these gender swap complaints, within the context of the films story, Even if John was still alive, people would still be annoyed if it was a girl who would save the world and he helped train her, it has to be some new random guy for "you guys" to be happy, not a woman!!!!! A woman could never lead a resistance!
The whole feminist excuse for hating this film is bullshit anyway, T1/T2 are films about Sarah Conner, they are both her story. It wasn't until T3 tried changing the focus to John and unceremoniously killed off Sarah, the main character of the franchise.

Read Miller's quote again, he wasn't aiming it at the whole fan base.

If you see "woke" in this marketing, that's a "you" thing. The movie failed because T3, Salvation and Genesis already tarnished the franchise. This film, although not perfect, was a step in the right direction in comparison to the last 3.
 

TUROK

Member
It ain't woke you mofos.
The only "woke" moments in the film were those lame, way too on the nose lines about Dani's womb being important and then the whole reveal about Dani being the new leader of the resistance, but that's just a handful of crappy lines. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I swear, all this backlash about "forced diversity" or whatever is making people look so delicate.
 

ruvikx

Banned
I swear, all this backlash about "forced diversity" or whatever is making people look so delicate.

They replaced the "white male" leader with a Mexican illegal immigrant female, after summarily murdering him. Let's replace Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman & Rey with white males & then accuse all the detractors of being "delicate". Am I doing this right?

I swear, the neo-dishonest "my movie isn't woke" defense force when the product they're defending is absolutely agenda driven (i.e. Terminator gets rid of the problematic white patriarchy & makes a brown latina girl the "savior" for no reason other than gender swapping "in ur face" politics) is quite amazing at this point.
 

sol_bad

Member
They replaced the "white male" leader with a Mexican illegal immigrant female, after summarily murdering him. Let's replace Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman & Rey with white males & then accuse all the detractors of being "delicate". Am I doing this right?

I swear, the neo-dishonest "my movie isn't woke" defense force when the product they're defending is absolutely agenda driven (i.e. Terminator gets rid of the problematic white patriarchy & makes a brown latina girl the "savior" for no reason other than gender swapping "in ur face" politics) is quite amazing at this point.

And they killed of Sarah in T3 because .... patriarchy? Got rid of any strong females because of ..... patriarchy?
Get over it, people wouldn't have given a shit about this shit prior to 2010.
 

cryptoadam

Banned
T3 kinda bombed too and is not seen as a good movie. Its funny because DF kinda made the same mistakes.

Kill beloved character-check, Sarah off screen, John in the first 5 minutes
Insert annoying female character - check, Danni and John's wife
Ruin Arnie - check, make him too funny, or make him a plot hole device and family man
retread T2/T1-check both movies just retread the first 2, future robot and protector sent back, chase scene, kill the baddie at the end, protector sacrafices themselves.

Movie goers were shitting on T3 just as much as they have on DF so lets not pretend T3 was seen as this great amazing movie that was beloved by the fans.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Yes the material did come off as woke. And Where is Arnie you know the biggest star of this damn franchise?

Danni was maybe fine on her own, but the fact that she was a gender swapped John Conner and was some super bad ass in the future was just meh and not believable.

And Tim Millers quote was stupid. The main audience for these movies are men, saying if you don't like this movie you are a mysoginist is crapping on your main audience and daring them to not go see your movie.

The movie wanted to push through its marketing and from the directors own words WOMANZ power. Nothing wrong with good female characters but that was at the forefront of this film. Doesn't matter now because it bombed spectacularly so it can be denied all you want but something turned audiences off. And ironically the reviews are pretty decent so its not like WOM said the movie was shit.

Danni was trained by Sarah Conner. She's basically John reincarnated. She's no more a Mary Sue than Tony Stark.
 

TUROK

Member
They replaced the "white male" leader with a Mexican illegal immigrant female, after summarily murdering him. Let's replace Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman & Rey with white males & then accuse all the detractors of being "delicate". Am I doing this right?

I swear, the neo-dishonest "my movie isn't woke" defense force when the product they're defending is absolutely agenda driven (i.e. Terminator gets rid of the problematic white patriarchy & makes a brown latina girl the "savior" for no reason other than gender swapping "in ur face" politics) is quite amazing at this point.
I literally wouldn't give a single fuck if they actually did this.
 

highrider

Banned
Yeah, being woke doesn’t help but I think the last films have been so bad people aren’t trying to waste their coin at the theater.
I can say for myself I’m kind of over films that feature predominantly female action leads. It’s not entertaining to watch another Rey defeat everyone with ease. I think the woke thing is not allowing them to write female characters with vulnerability, and it’s hard to relate to perfect characters.
 

sol_bad

Member
Yeah, being woke doesn’t help but I think the last films have been so bad people aren’t trying to waste their coin at the theater.
I can say for myself I’m kind of over films that feature predominantly female action leads. It’s not entertaining to watch another Rey defeat everyone with ease. I think the woke thing is not allowing them to write female characters with vulnerability, and it’s hard to relate to perfect characters.

But it's OK for John Wick to kill everyone with ease except for the end of level bosses? Right.
 

oagboghi2

Member
And they killed of Sarah in T3 because .... patriarchy? Got rid of any strong females because of ..... patriarchy?
Get over it, people wouldn't have given a shit about this shit prior to 2010.

They killed off Sarah becuase Linda Hamilton turned down the role. She felt her characters arc was over.

You are just in denial at this point.

None of the excuses you come up with can change what Tim Miller said. They made those casting changes, and script changes to target a different audience. They tried to turn the franchise fully female, becuase “woke” is the new popular thing in Hollywood right now. It blew up in their face.

But it's OK for John Wick to kill everyone with ease except for the end of level bosses? Right.
Fucking lol. This is just sad
 
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sol_bad

Member
Fucking lol. This is just sad

High rider wrote:
"I think the woke thing is not allowing them to write female characters with vulnerability, and it’s hard to relate to perfect characters."

So what is John Wicks vulnerability? How is he not perfect?
 

oagboghi2

Member
High rider wrote:
"I think the woke thing is not allowing them to write female characters with vulnerability, and it’s hard to relate to perfect characters."

So what is John Wicks vulnerability? How is he not perfect?
Relating to John Wick is not why people like his movies. They are not deep retrospective dramas.

John Wick works becuase it is simple, direct and has style over substance.

Are you just going to throw out any random male character as a gotcha now?
 

sol_bad

Member
Relating to John Wick is not why people like his movies. They are not deep retrospective dramas.

John Wick works becuase it is simple, direct and has style over substance.

Are you just going to throw out any random male character as a gotcha now?

Yes, because the anti-woke brigade is happy to have under developed male heroes or pre-developed (as in their character has been an assassin/murderer for years before the movie starts) male heroes but will bitch and moan about any recent female hero no matter what.
 
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