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The All-Star Break is over! The NEW MLB Thread - This half we get stickied for sure!
- Thread starter Thaedolus
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hahaha. steinbrenner is about to OWN the rest of the owners with a smile on his face and his middle finger in the air...
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3293
click link for full article.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3293
click link for full article.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
and the dust has settled. the mets are the biggest losers around and i feel sorry for their fans to have to put up wih an owner like wilpon who is 1) a liar and 2) cheap. HOW CAN YOU TRADE THE BEST PITCHiNG PROSPECT IN THE MINOR LEAGUES FOR VICTOR ZAMBRANO!?!?all beacuse rick peterson said "i can fix him" what a freakking joke.
an organization taking pointers from a PITCHING COACH!!!!!
on the other hand im glad the yanks got rid of contreras. and we save $12 million dollars to boot. would have been happy with a bag of balls.and el duque showed why he's the superior communist, er, i mean, pitcher sunday. he didnt have his best stuff but he battled and managed to pitch a decent ball game and got the win.
maybe when/if karsay and mussina come back, we can move loaiza to the pen and keep el duque in the rotation? he's already showed he's better than lieber and he's a proven money man in the post season. what's lieber done?
no-mah no mo. OH NO!! whatever makes miguel miserable. where is he by the way?
any tall buildings in the houston area? i'll gladly have a boston with a less potent offense than better defense.
and what's with he dodgers? i actually think it made them a better team and they didnt lose their top pitching prospect unlikea certain team from queens who shall remain nameless.
an organization taking pointers from a PITCHING COACH!!!!!
on the other hand im glad the yanks got rid of contreras. and we save $12 million dollars to boot. would have been happy with a bag of balls.and el duque showed why he's the superior communist, er, i mean, pitcher sunday. he didnt have his best stuff but he battled and managed to pitch a decent ball game and got the win.
maybe when/if karsay and mussina come back, we can move loaiza to the pen and keep el duque in the rotation? he's already showed he's better than lieber and he's a proven money man in the post season. what's lieber done?
no-mah no mo. OH NO!! whatever makes miguel miserable. where is he by the way?
any tall buildings in the houston area? i'll gladly have a boston with a less potent offense than better defense.
and what's with he dodgers? i actually think it made them a better team and they didnt lose their top pitching prospect unlikea certain team from queens who shall remain nameless.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Desperado said:
What else is new..what a sorry ass year this has turned out to be.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Rodriguez said:
duque aint going to no pen if he keeps on pitching like he does.
I still can't believe the Dodgers GM tweaked the roster like he did at the deadline. Without any moves they were a lock to win the division. Now I think they have a good chance to not make the playoffs. When was the last time a team so hot was dismantled the way the Dodgers were in the last couple days...??
As a Padres fan, I'm gleeful that the Dodgers made a bunch of dumb trades before the deadline. Wasn't their GM paying attention to the Yankees winning formula in their most dominant years? Get your starter through six innings with a lead -- hell, get through five -- and bring in your 1-2-3 combination of dominating relief pitchers to lock up the win. Now, #2 in that sequence is gone...and I'm not sure that Brad Penny is going to be good enough to justify the loss of Mota. Finley is certainly a upgrade over Roberts in center field, but getting rid of Lo Duca is a mistake. Remember that a catcher also handles a pitching staff...so who knows what the impact will be on the defensive end with a new game-caller? Also, what about team chemistry, which has been a negative for the Dodgers prior to this year? Lo Duca was a respected clubhouse guy.
Of course, the Padres need to learn how to not blow games to the Dodgers in the late innings, but that's another rant. If you take away one hit and one throwing error, the Padres just won two straight series from the Dodgers. If I was a Los Angeles fan, I wouldn't be resting too easily about that 3.5 game lead right now...the teams are NOT that far apart, and the race has been close all season long. (13 games in May? Hah.)
Of course, the Padres need to learn how to not blow games to the Dodgers in the late innings, but that's another rant. If you take away one hit and one throwing error, the Padres just won two straight series from the Dodgers. If I was a Los Angeles fan, I wouldn't be resting too easily about that 3.5 game lead right now...the teams are NOT that far apart, and the race has been close all season long. (13 games in May? Hah.)
Ninja Scooter
Member
when i first heard of the trade, i was getting flashbacks of the Mike Piazza to Florida fiasco of a few years back. Dodgers are barely recovering from that it seems. But the more i've thought about it, its not THAT bad of a trade. I think people are letting 2 facts cloud their judgement (at least dodger fans it seems) 1) Lo Duca is a fan favorite. Probably the most popular dodger. So trading him was gonna obviously create a firestorm. But if you set that aside, you have to look at Lo Duca and realize he was a nice player, but far from "untradeable". He's 32 years old, isn't the best defensively, and has a history of slumping down the stretch during seasons. This is much closer to when the Dodgers unloaded Eric Karros (another fan favorite) than Piazza. Lo Duca wasn't a guy that was gonna carry you to a title. Not to mention he was due up for a big payday this offseason and the Dodgers were probalby going to let him walk anyway and 2) that this team is in 1st place Granted, they could have stood pat and rode this thing to the NL West title, but then what? I think the reason DePodesta made these moves was to make a run farther than that. Now, IF all these moves he did work out how he seemingly wanted them to, and both Choi and Finley can give thme some pop down the stretch, and Penny can become that no.1 starter they didn't have before and solidify the starting rotation, and Choi playing 1B, Green moving back to right and Finley patroling in center, I don't see why the Dodgers can't get to the NLCS or possibly even further. The only area where they are REALLY hurt now is the bullpen, but supposedly they just called up some lefthander (his name escapes me) who throws 98mph and was putting up crazy numbers (12 to 1 so to walk ratio) in the minors, so maybe he can fill in some of the loss of Mota.
No way madres... Dodgers winning the NL west! And instead of listening to BSPN, all you haters should anaylyze the trade a little more and you'll realize this trade was brilliant. And i'll tell you why. Penny has WS experience went 2-0 against the yanks and pitches really well against the cards plus hes only 26 yrs old. Choi(24)/Finley offensive numbers DWARF those of Loduca/Encarnacion. I agree our catcher Ross hasn't much experience but he calls great games and is better defensively then lo duca. Lo Duca is in his 2nd half slump batting .250. Roberts wasn't playing that much anyways because we have too many outfielders and he was the odd man out. The best part of all, the fish takes Juan Ecarn and his huge ass salary. Bottom line, this team is better then last weeks.
Plus next year Lo duca, mota and encarnacion would have made almost 15 million combined
while choi and penny (who are 24 and 26) will make about 6 million add that with martin's 1.9 million and roberts 1 million. So, they have gone from 18 million to 6, that's about the price to resign Beltre+another free agent, and we got better, and younger, in the process. It was a good trade not only for this year, but for years to come.
while choi and penny (who are 24 and 26) will make about 6 million add that with martin's 1.9 million and roberts 1 million. So, they have gone from 18 million to 6, that's about the price to resign Beltre+another free agent, and we got better, and younger, in the process. It was a good trade not only for this year, but for years to come.
Actually, LA payed the Marlins to take him.
And Choi's numbers don't "dwarf" Encarnacion's. They are pretty even. But Choi is still young and will be a great player, one day. He's a great pick up for the future, but if you want to win NOW he isn't the best choice. For someone who has a great eye, he sure does stike out a lot.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Scoobert said:Actually, LA payed the Marlins to take him.
And Choi's numbers don't "dwarf" Encarnacion's. They are pretty even. But Choi is still young and will be a great player, one day. He's a great pick up for the future, but if you want to win NOW he isn't the best choice. For someone who has a great eye, he sure does stike out a lot.
im not so sure Choi will ever become a "great" player. He can slug with hte best of them, but he's just not that great a hitter. He's absolutely pitiful against left handed pitching. I actually think getting Choi was much more of a move to help out this year and next year, more so than building for the future, when you figure that he will give you a solid 20-25 hrs and drive in a bunch of runs for the minimum, its a steal.
Their's 3 things Choi does when he bats. He either hits a home run, walks, or strikeouts. I don't know why, but for a guy who can force walks he strikes out too much. With the right hitting instructor, I think he can be a great hitter. This is his first full year, remember that.
He actually improved his hitting when he came to the Marlins, they fixed it a little. He needs more tweaking though. Their's just something about his swing that looks off. His defense really improved as the season went on. He's still a little slow getting to those foul pop ups, but he has gotten better.
He actually improved his hitting when he came to the Marlins, they fixed it a little. He needs more tweaking though. Their's just something about his swing that looks off. His defense really improved as the season went on. He's still a little slow getting to those foul pop ups, but he has gotten better.
By: Chris Kahrl
LOS ANGELES DODGERS Return to Top
Acquired RHP Brad Penny, 1B-L Hee Seop Choi and LHP Bill Murphy from the Marlins for C-R Paul Lo Duca, OF-R Juan Encarnacion and RHP Guillermo Mota. [7/30]
Acquired OF-L Steve Finley and C-L Brent Mayne from the Diamondbacks for C-B Koyie Hill, OF-R Reggie Abercrombie, and LHP Bill Murphy; acquired LHP Matt Merricks from the Braves for LHP Tom Martin; acquired OF-L Henri Stanley from the Red Sox for OF-L Dave Roberts. [7/31]
It looks like a slam dunk for the Dodgers, but let's place the swag in context of what this does for this year's pennant chase. I know, it's initially unfair, because it reduces Hee Choi's future to the elephant in the room, but indulge me.
First, they got a famous, formerly great center fielder who might no longer really be the no-brainer choice over Milton Bradley in center. Given his just-adequate walk rates, his chief offensive asset is slugging; over the last four seasons (2004 inclusive), you're talking about a guy who slugged .441 away from the BOB. Finley's good, but he may be merely a modest offensive improvement over Dave Roberts, who was basically discarded.
Offensively, that gives you two major exchanges: Moving down from Paul Lo Duca to a Dave Ross-Brent Mayne combination behind the plate, and practically exchanging Hee Seop Choi for Juan Encarnacion (with Shawn Green moving back into the outfield). Encarnacion was virtually worthless: He was easily their worst-hitting outfielder, and he was signed to big money through next year. For that, you swap in an offensive powerhouse. Freed from the twin terrors of first Dusty Baker's opinion and the muggy muck of Miami, Choi should be golden, potentially giving the team its best lefty slugger since Duke Snider, and also a hitter with superb command of the plate. For the sake of argument, if the Dodgers' alternative was going out and getting Carlos Delgado, this is doing themselves one better: They get a player with Delgado's offensive skills on the upswing of his career, and they get at least four more years of Choi, should they want to have them.
Lo Duca was worth something. However, whatever you might say about heart and soul or whatever nonsense is coming out of one famous New York beat writer's hat (I love how some johnnies-on-the-spot can sniff out emotion from another league and three thousand miles away), LoDuca's not a great catcher, and his offensive value these days has withered away to an ability to make contact. At 32 years old, this might be his last really valuable season. There isn't a lot to say about Mayne; at best, he can catch. The hidden bonus in this is that Ross might bop for some power down the stretch. He showed considerable sock last season, and propelled into everyday play, he'd give the Dodgers a defensive upgrade who would also hit better than Encarnacion. Of course, then you should also compare LoDuca to Choi, and that looks like a net gain for the Dodgers, now and into the future.
Then there's the pitching portion of the program: Penny's no slouch to stuff into the rotation, and if you have a choice between a useful starter and a useful reliever like Mota, the useful starter's generally the better option. Mota may be one of the 10 best relievers in the NL right now, but by getting Penny, they're replacing Mota's innings in the pen with Wilson Alvarez, which doesn't hurt. Later, when Edwin Jackson comes off of the DL, either he can help out in the pen down the stretch, or he takes Jose Lima's place in the rotation, and Lima gives the pen some more good stuff. So the pen will be covered, leaving you with the good news that you've got Penny. As persistent as the rumors are that this is the year that Penny's elbow melts down, he might be the best starter the Dodgers have, certainly giving them a fine one-two punch at the top of the rotation with Odalis Perez. Then you've got Jeff Weaver and Kaz Ishii in the back end of a postseason rotation, which is a significantly happier state of affairs.
Now, admittedly, there were costs. But the Dodgers could afford to discard Roberts and Tom Martin. In the outfield, with Grabowski and Werth on the bench, they have fourth and fifth outfielders better than some starting flychasers for a few contenders, and in the pen, Martin was pushed out by the new role for Alvarez. Abercrombie and Hill are disappointments on the prospect front, and Encarnacion was practically worthless. So really, to sum up, DePo gave up a great reliever, a good if graying catcher, two seedy outfielders, a lefty journeyman reliever, and he got a series of offensive upgrades, a defensive improvement behind the plate, and a significantly improved rotation. Then you get into the financials and long-term prospects of someone like Choi, and it's a great two days for the Dodgers. Finley's importance will be overstated, but if anything, his pickup might be the least significant. He's nice to have and came relatively cheaply, of course, but getting Choi and Penny are the real gems.
AGREED 100%
LOS ANGELES DODGERS Return to Top
Acquired RHP Brad Penny, 1B-L Hee Seop Choi and LHP Bill Murphy from the Marlins for C-R Paul Lo Duca, OF-R Juan Encarnacion and RHP Guillermo Mota. [7/30]
Acquired OF-L Steve Finley and C-L Brent Mayne from the Diamondbacks for C-B Koyie Hill, OF-R Reggie Abercrombie, and LHP Bill Murphy; acquired LHP Matt Merricks from the Braves for LHP Tom Martin; acquired OF-L Henri Stanley from the Red Sox for OF-L Dave Roberts. [7/31]
It looks like a slam dunk for the Dodgers, but let's place the swag in context of what this does for this year's pennant chase. I know, it's initially unfair, because it reduces Hee Choi's future to the elephant in the room, but indulge me.
First, they got a famous, formerly great center fielder who might no longer really be the no-brainer choice over Milton Bradley in center. Given his just-adequate walk rates, his chief offensive asset is slugging; over the last four seasons (2004 inclusive), you're talking about a guy who slugged .441 away from the BOB. Finley's good, but he may be merely a modest offensive improvement over Dave Roberts, who was basically discarded.
Offensively, that gives you two major exchanges: Moving down from Paul Lo Duca to a Dave Ross-Brent Mayne combination behind the plate, and practically exchanging Hee Seop Choi for Juan Encarnacion (with Shawn Green moving back into the outfield). Encarnacion was virtually worthless: He was easily their worst-hitting outfielder, and he was signed to big money through next year. For that, you swap in an offensive powerhouse. Freed from the twin terrors of first Dusty Baker's opinion and the muggy muck of Miami, Choi should be golden, potentially giving the team its best lefty slugger since Duke Snider, and also a hitter with superb command of the plate. For the sake of argument, if the Dodgers' alternative was going out and getting Carlos Delgado, this is doing themselves one better: They get a player with Delgado's offensive skills on the upswing of his career, and they get at least four more years of Choi, should they want to have them.
Lo Duca was worth something. However, whatever you might say about heart and soul or whatever nonsense is coming out of one famous New York beat writer's hat (I love how some johnnies-on-the-spot can sniff out emotion from another league and three thousand miles away), LoDuca's not a great catcher, and his offensive value these days has withered away to an ability to make contact. At 32 years old, this might be his last really valuable season. There isn't a lot to say about Mayne; at best, he can catch. The hidden bonus in this is that Ross might bop for some power down the stretch. He showed considerable sock last season, and propelled into everyday play, he'd give the Dodgers a defensive upgrade who would also hit better than Encarnacion. Of course, then you should also compare LoDuca to Choi, and that looks like a net gain for the Dodgers, now and into the future.
Then there's the pitching portion of the program: Penny's no slouch to stuff into the rotation, and if you have a choice between a useful starter and a useful reliever like Mota, the useful starter's generally the better option. Mota may be one of the 10 best relievers in the NL right now, but by getting Penny, they're replacing Mota's innings in the pen with Wilson Alvarez, which doesn't hurt. Later, when Edwin Jackson comes off of the DL, either he can help out in the pen down the stretch, or he takes Jose Lima's place in the rotation, and Lima gives the pen some more good stuff. So the pen will be covered, leaving you with the good news that you've got Penny. As persistent as the rumors are that this is the year that Penny's elbow melts down, he might be the best starter the Dodgers have, certainly giving them a fine one-two punch at the top of the rotation with Odalis Perez. Then you've got Jeff Weaver and Kaz Ishii in the back end of a postseason rotation, which is a significantly happier state of affairs.
Now, admittedly, there were costs. But the Dodgers could afford to discard Roberts and Tom Martin. In the outfield, with Grabowski and Werth on the bench, they have fourth and fifth outfielders better than some starting flychasers for a few contenders, and in the pen, Martin was pushed out by the new role for Alvarez. Abercrombie and Hill are disappointments on the prospect front, and Encarnacion was practically worthless. So really, to sum up, DePo gave up a great reliever, a good if graying catcher, two seedy outfielders, a lefty journeyman reliever, and he got a series of offensive upgrades, a defensive improvement behind the plate, and a significantly improved rotation. Then you get into the financials and long-term prospects of someone like Choi, and it's a great two days for the Dodgers. Finley's importance will be overstated, but if anything, his pickup might be the least significant. He's nice to have and came relatively cheaply, of course, but getting Choi and Penny are the real gems.
AGREED 100%
evil solrac v3.0
Member
mike lupica is such a hack. of course he's gonna say that piazza is done. it's an off-day for both teams and they need to sell papers!!! somebody needs to take him down a peg.he even said that the bernie williams deal wasnt worth it.
Someone should pass the news to Torre/Cashman/Steinbrenner that Heredia IS SHIT! IT'S NOT GOING TO GET BETTER! RELEASE OR TRADE THIS WORTHLESS PIECE OF GARBAGE NOW!
Yeah, not a good way to make your case to stay in the rotation, Lieber. If Mussina can return to normal, what use is Lieber at all? He gives up too many hits to be of any use in the bullpen. The only way he is of any use is to eat up innings as a starter, but he is horribly inconsistent. I'll take a solid 5 innings from El Duque rather than send Lieber out there and hope that assclown can last 6-7 innings.
Yeah, not a good way to make your case to stay in the rotation, Lieber. If Mussina can return to normal, what use is Lieber at all? He gives up too many hits to be of any use in the bullpen. The only way he is of any use is to eat up innings as a starter, but he is horribly inconsistent. I'll take a solid 5 innings from El Duque rather than send Lieber out there and hope that assclown can last 6-7 innings.
Cubsfan23 said:
Yes!
Looks like Houston is trying to make a run. No matter though. They aren't gonna catch the Cubs.
Unfotunately for them the Cubs are heating up at the same time. I still believe we are gonna make a huge run at the division before the season is over with.Wood just locked down after giving up 3 in the first. He became unhittable.
Jesus the entire Pirates staff is mowing our team down like they were nothing.. Izturis at 3rd with 1 out and they can't get him in, ugh. 13 K's for the Pirates through 7 innings. Oh well, we're winning and Penny is breezing. 2 hits in 7 innings thus far.. come on Tracy, let him go the distance.
Bah, they're pinch hitting for him. Oh well, at least Gagne can get a save opp.. if Grabowski doesn't keep the inning alive that is.
Bah, they're pinch hitting for him. Oh well, at least Gagne can get a save opp.. if Grabowski doesn't keep the inning alive that is.
metsallica
Member
12-3
Thanks, Bob.
Thanks, Bob.
Haha. Michael Barrett is awesome. Barret wears Nomars usually number. He gave up his number on his jersey for Nomar. But only if Nomar would seriously consider resigning with the Cubs! Not giving it up for a couple months! Plant those seeds to getting Nomar resigned Barret you rock! Small snippet from the Sun Times article:
evil solrac v3.0
Member
i say release heredia. the less cubbies we have on the team, the better. lieber would be no good in the pen, but he's no good in the starting rotation. on the other hand, mark mulder didnt ave it yesterday and he got lucky. oh well, that's baseball.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Joe said:
Heredia couldn't even be a fucking potato chip at this point. Lieber is less bad, but only in the way a bullet to the head is less bad than a knife in the stomach.
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