FrankWza
Member
Patches or for it to work in general. It should work on some games in the window. It seems to not be working on PS4 first party games that have a PS5 version like HFW and GT7
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VRR support rolling out this week for PS5
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
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DJ12
Member
because its above 60fps, I have a QN95a, as I told you the other day, my FPS counter is mainly at 119 in Spiderman in fidelity mode, with random fluctuations, mostly to 85 if memory serves but not exclusively, this will happen when staring at the floor and nothing else going on.somehow my frame counter works perfectly in performance mode... explain that
Maybe there's a video of spiderman or miles showing it dropping below 60 in specific areas, so I can test what happens with that.
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01011001
Banned
we have videos showing it isn't. LFC is broken currently it seems
01011001
Banned
that means LFC doesn't work tho. with LFC the game should never output anything below 80hz so the refresh counter works perfectly fine, the implementation of the fidelity mode is broken and it also means the system never outputs anything below 48hz either
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omegasc
Member
hmm LFC should only kick in when below the supported VRR range. So you should see frames down to 40 and only then it should double frames. For unsupported games it seems that going below 48 re-engages V-Sync to 120hz instead, 40 being the actual game fps (based on those GameTech videos).
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01011001
Banned
usually LFC at 120hz kicks in below 60hz as that is the smoothest transition point, and games that aren't designed to run above 60hz use LFC at all times usually
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Hezekiah
Banned
For it to work in general?
Tbh there aren't many I think it's that necessary, but Bloodborne and Days Gone come to mind.
FrankWza
Member
.
bloodborne doesn’t work because it’s 30fos. I don’t know if they would need to unlock it and if that would be beneficial
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If they unlocked it, it would hit 60+ on the PS5 and VRR should help.
Hezekiah
Banned
Yeah Days Gone too.
I guess that's why LFC is needed...going to watch that GamingTech vid to find out exactly what it is lol.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Didn't they already unlock Days Gone for 60 on the PS5?
FrankWza
Member
Days gone was already unlocked
RoadHazard
Gold Member
How does it help though? I don't think YouTube does VRR? But maybe it's just so that he can actually analyze VRR framerates.
Tygeezy
Member
If your range is 40-120 hz it will kick in right around 40 fps(80 hz). I've never witnessed lfc behave the way you're describing it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think John once said that he simply cant capture any footage with VRR on. So he has to disable VRR on his xbox to capture footage using whatever capture cards he uses for framerate comparisons.
TBH, I dont know how a properly captured VRR footage might look on a framerate graph.
Mr Moose
Member
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omegasc
Member
without that, they can't enable VRR, meaning they wouldn't have any recording to pass on their frame counter tool
omegasc
Member
this summarizes what I was trying to say. Thanks!From what I've read, it's 48 (2.5x = 120).
LFC only triggers when fps is below the VRR range.
From what I have been seeing, 40 is the lower limit for PS5 games that support VRR.
Unsupported games have 48 as lower limit, but then again, it looks like LFC is not being applied, falling back to 120hz v-sync (at 30 or 40fps when supported I guess).
We will soon have videos from NXG and DF to double check that
Hezekiah
Banned
01011001
Banned
again we have ZERO evidence for anything you said there. why would a 40hz LG not display the VRR refresh correctly in Ratchet if it goes down to 40hz?
01011001
Banned
if it tears because it drops below 30fps it should fix tearing.
omegasc
Member
It depends on how the game (or system) is set up. It may or may not engage v-sync, but this is not up to VRR to do it. VRR is just disengaged, and the game falls back to whatever is set up, so you can have:
v-sync on (no tearing, judder)
v-sync off (tearing)
v-sync on+LFC (no tearing, smooth - still depending on the fps)
v-sync off+LFC (reduced tearing, lower judder)
assurdum
Banned
So wait LFC can be applied on 30 FPS on game basis even if it's not supported on ps5 VRR below 48 FPS?
01011001
Banned
30fps games do not actually send a 30fps signal. 30fps games are displayed in a 60fps container. so if a 30fps game drops to 29fps what the console actually sends to the TV is 58fps, meaning the TV would only need to go down to 58hz to compensate for that.
Doctor Hades
Member
I'm pretty sure my Xbox Series X is doing something with Spyro Reignited Trilogy with VRR to "fix" the bad framepacing that game has, or rather had, even though it is capped at 30 fps because it now runs silky-smooth with no microstutter at all unlike the game on PS5 which still has those irritating stutters despite running at a locked 30 fps. I am very sensitive to bad framepacing which is why I stopped playing the game on my PS4 Pro and PS5. I half expect that if Bloodborne was running on Xbox Series X that it too would benefit from a smooth 30 fps framerate due to its implementation of VRR and also because Microsoft had the foresight to support previous generation games!!! I'm not sure how it is working but it is (I have the 120 Hz mode forced by the way). Spyro Reignited Trilogy was never patched to fix the bad framepacing issues so it remained stuttery on PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. I have mentioned this in numerous threads on different forums but no-one has posted to confirm this.
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assurdum
Banned
VRR doesn't fix frame pacing or unsteady 30 FPS though.
Riky
$MSFT
If you're running at 120hz then the difference in frametimes will mostly solve stutter for 30fps games.
You're getting a new frame every 8.33ms instead of 33.33ms, that helps with framepacing variations.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Only at 120hz.
01011001
Banned
RoadHazard
Gold Member
VRR doesn't work below 30fps, so yes. At 120hz it can, because 28fps will then be handled as 56fps.
01011001
Banned
and 56hz is not in the VRR range when outputting 60hz now? can you see why you are wrong yet?
omegasc
Member
VRR and LFC are not exactly linked. And I'd say "40fps in 120hz" mode in R&C is some kind of software LFC, but with a fixed framerate, if that makes sense.
Doctor Hades
Member
That makes sense. Thanks for that. The forced 120 Hz mode basically fixes the framepacing in that game. I played it for 4-5 hours across the three games and numerous different levels and was not annoyed by microstuttering at all. I then loaded Spyro Reignited Trilogy on my PS5 and noticed the bad framepacing within seconds of playing.
Sony need to add an option to force 120 Hz for *ALL* games on a system level as it will have no adverse affect on 30 or 60 fps games since they would output a new frame every 4 or 2 refreshes of the 120 Hz display respectively. If forced 120 Hz fixes Spyro Reignited Trilogy's bad framepacing on Xbox Series X then, logically, it sould also do the same for Bloodborne on PS5. The forced 120 Hz mode would also reduce the need for games to be individually patched, something that will likely not happen for many older games, including PS4 titles that the PS5 currently doesn't support for VRR anyway. It doesn't help either that VRR support is already 18 months late on PS5.
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
But it you're outputting at 1:1 fps:hz then 28fps means 28hz, which VRR generally can't do.
01011001
Banned
but if it works correctly LFC will activate as soon as you drop below 50% of your max refresh.
60hz LFC works at anything below 30fps and 120hz LFC works at anything below 60hz
so if it works correctly you should be able to use VRR for 30fps games when set to 60hz output
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Alright, but people are saying LFC doesn't work with PS5 because you can't force games to 120hz. Or is that only for handling 60fps games dropping below 48fps?
01011001
Banned
I think most people only actually tested Ratchet or Spider-Man, and the fidelity mode in these seems completely broken at the moment.
I already shared what I think is happening there, I basically think that 2 facors are responsible for the results we see in those games.
the first factor is that the games use a dynamic res in every mode as far as I'm aware, and with an unlocked framerate the dynamic res doesn't know what to do.
the second factor might be how the 120hz fidelity mode was coded. it Originally targeted 120hz by sending out 1 new frame followed by 2 duplicates to "stretch" 40fps into 120hz
so I think that is still happening to a degree when VRR is active, and is why we see constant jumps from 120hz down to 70hz or 48hz and instantly back up to 120hz again
I think the game needs a patch basically.
and I have not seen anyone try any other game currently that would support LFC at 120hz or 60hz
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yamaci17
Member
even if the game is in a 60 hz container, LFC should activate between 0-20 and 24-30 fps, logically
screen can still do 48-60 hz, therefore it can actually map 24-30 fps to 48-60 hz. or at least it should. it should be capable.
0-20 also should work because of triple sync (yes, lfc can do that too). 20 to 60, 18 to 54, 15 to 60, 10 to 50/60, 5 to 50/60 (at this point its a slideshow, so yeah)
screen can still do 48-60 hz, therefore it can actually map 24-30 fps to 48-60 hz. or at least it should. it should be capable.
0-20 also should work because of triple sync (yes, lfc can do that too). 20 to 60, 18 to 54, 15 to 60, 10 to 50/60, 5 to 50/60 (at this point its a slideshow, so yeah)
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DJ12
Member
If you sure it's broken why do t you ask Insomniac on twitter, they usually have no problems answering reasonable questions.
I think when nxgs ign video cones out well know for sure but from the other video it runs between 45 and 55 for vrr will be working even though your counter says differently.
Lfc is aparently done on the sorce and absolutely nothing to do with the TV.
It's consevable Sony haven't implemented it, but it's kinda what Insomniac did with Ratchet anyway, but with 3 frames instead of the two lfc does.
Surely someone in the ICE group will be on this at some point.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Goodness me. First Ratchet and Spiderman FPS numbers are in and they hit 100 fps in Performnance RT mode and up to 60 fps in native 4k RT mode. Absolutely bonkers performance from a console once dismissed as a shadows only RT console by Alex Battlestar Gallactica.
Video is from the banned source El Anal bits guy, but man it is so impressive to see the PS5 average 50 fps in native 4k and almost 85 fps in 1440p modes with RT reflections on. This console is an absolute beast. And thats coming from someone who spent almost $2k buying a PC with a RTX 2080 just for RT and then struggled immediately to run games at 1440p 60 fps without DLSS. Control especially was horrendous and i had to reduce it all the way down to 960p and get DLSS to do 1440p. I get that Ratchet isnt doing all the ray traced debris and GI Control was doing but it looks way better than Control overall. Same with Spiderman and Metro. It's just a better looking game overall.
The only problem I have with this is that Insomniac clearly left a lot of performance on the table. Yes, VRR is letting us get to 50 fps with brief hits to 60, but why are we wasting so much of the GPU on rendering pixels when we can be pushing matrix caliber graphics at 1080p. I am actually ok at 1440p 30 fps modes that can be downgraded to 1080p 60 fps modes for performance modes, but who the hell asked for native 4k 60 fps for next gen games? Give me next gen visuals, physics, fluid simulation and destruction man. Lets stop chasing this ridiculous native 4k 60 fps dream.
Video is from the banned source El Anal bits guy, but man it is so impressive to see the PS5 average 50 fps in native 4k and almost 85 fps in 1440p modes with RT reflections on. This console is an absolute beast. And thats coming from someone who spent almost $2k buying a PC with a RTX 2080 just for RT and then struggled immediately to run games at 1440p 60 fps without DLSS. Control especially was horrendous and i had to reduce it all the way down to 960p and get DLSS to do 1440p. I get that Ratchet isnt doing all the ray traced debris and GI Control was doing but it looks way better than Control overall. Same with Spiderman and Metro. It's just a better looking game overall.
The only problem I have with this is that Insomniac clearly left a lot of performance on the table. Yes, VRR is letting us get to 50 fps with brief hits to 60, but why are we wasting so much of the GPU on rendering pixels when we can be pushing matrix caliber graphics at 1080p. I am actually ok at 1440p 30 fps modes that can be downgraded to 1080p 60 fps modes for performance modes, but who the hell asked for native 4k 60 fps for next gen games? Give me next gen visuals, physics, fluid simulation and destruction man. Lets stop chasing this ridiculous native 4k 60 fps dream.
Mr Moose
Member
60Hz would be anything below 24, 120Hz would be below 48 (num x 2.5).
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Dust-by-Monday
Member
Unfortunately LFC doesn't work unless you have at least 2.5x the refresh rate. Technically the TV or monitor COULD do 58Hz out of 60Hz, it won't work that way.
I have lots of experience with LFC from my PC days. You NEED 2.5x the refresh rate for LFC to kick in.
Doesn’t VRR get the tv to match frames it receives? You might be just seeing the frame output instead of tv normal speed.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Isn't your TV frame rate info just showing that the output is locked at 60hz, not the games frame rate ?
RafterXL
Member
For anyone who wants to test out why VRR is great, and also why this implementation isn't, at the same time, just download the Godfall edition that came with PS+. Put it on Resolution mode, which is unlocked.
The game rarely comes close to 60 fps, but it feels really good whenever it's above 48 fps because of VRR. The problem is, it dips below 48 fps all the time and when it does that it feels like shit, because that's the VRR floor on PS5.
If the floor was 40hz the game would feel significantly smoother because it wouldn't dip below this, and if there was an 120hz system wide setting it wouldn't matter if it did because LFC would kick in at that point.
The game rarely comes close to 60 fps, but it feels really good whenever it's above 48 fps because of VRR. The problem is, it dips below 48 fps all the time and when it does that it feels like shit, because that's the VRR floor on PS5.
If the floor was 40hz the game would feel significantly smoother because it wouldn't dip below this, and if there was an 120hz system wide setting it wouldn't matter if it did because LFC would kick in at that point.
That's how VRR works. The screen changes it's refresh rate to match the content. If you turn VRR off it doesn't.
GametimeUK
Member
Guys I'm not trying to fanboy or anything, but I'm wondering if someone can shed some light on this situation or if you've had similar results. I have Elden Ring on Xbox Series X and PS5 (gameshare).
I wanted to compare VRR between the two versions. On the PS5 it seems to eliminate stutter on less demanding scenes. However, when I reach the open world the perceptual judder for me is worse on PS5 than it is on Series X despite the fact Xbox runs at a lower framerate most of the time.
Has anyone else noticed the same thing or do I need my eyes testing? Is Series X running perceptually smoother than PS5 on this game? If so how is that even possible?
Both hooked up to a LGC9 using the cables that came with the consoles.
I wanted to compare VRR between the two versions. On the PS5 it seems to eliminate stutter on less demanding scenes. However, when I reach the open world the perceptual judder for me is worse on PS5 than it is on Series X despite the fact Xbox runs at a lower framerate most of the time.
Has anyone else noticed the same thing or do I need my eyes testing? Is Series X running perceptually smoother than PS5 on this game? If so how is that even possible?
Both hooked up to a LGC9 using the cables that came with the consoles.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
PS5 stops applying vrr smoothing if the frame dips below 48 fps. Xbox's vrr solution keeps smoothing the framerate until 40 fps.
What you are noticing is likely frames dropping below 48 fps. Try switching to performance mode which doesnt drop below 48 fps too much. You might be using quality mode which stays below 50 fps almost all the time.