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Forza Horizon 5 Next Gen performance targets revealed. RT only utilized in Forzavista

Kenpachii

Member
The end goal for Nvifia/AND is to be able to do real time RT for everything, GI, reflection/refractions, shadows, SSS etc, the fact that we are able to do it this well in real time is impressive. You have to start some where and this is just the beginning. Not perfect by far byt at least it has begun. The RT hardware can also be used for non visual stuff, it can help with enemy vision, sounds reflecting of and around surfaces etc.

It's not impressive when u realize how much more faster a 3090 is over a xbox one / ps4 and all games are based on those hardware specifications.

Just look at for example metro enhanced edition or the normal one. The models / textures everything looks like complete dog shit to what the game was back in the day when it destroyed PC hardware in metro 2033 ( in its own time period ). if htey would made the game based around a 3090 at 1080p 30 fps at medium settings, RT wouldn't even be a thing.

The same goes for next generation consoles. they change directory from 4k 60fps RT towards 1080p 30 fps no rt and medium settings. The quality of models / enviroments / physics everything will jump into the next gear and 100% of the people will notice it. the few reflections enhancements that only work in mirror worlds and lightning enhancements that u need pixel counters to even notice is just a laughable waste of resources.
 
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Says you… not being as good as what an RTX 3090 can push through does not mean bad. Both the quality and performance RT modes in Spider-man and Ratchet are actually quite good quality, result certainly is. Play them sometimes ;).
I played more RT games than you. I played Spiderman as well. Unlike you, i own all consoles and a gtx 3070 PC.


Cyberpunk leagues ahead in terms of RT. Miles look good but you can see limitation of hardware when it comes to RT. But if you want to believe otherwise, go ahead. Lol



Environment in Forza are way more detailed than Spiderman or WD even with RT thanks to photogammetry technology.
 

Raekwon26

Member
I'm surprised that people are so critical of this... oh, hang on, it's a Microsoft game? Oh, I get it now.
................and don't leave out this key fact;

"It's being played on a 12 teraflop console that has the ability to leave the competition in its dust................. "

.........................according to the "tech wizards" here.

Never forget that.
 
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I completely agree with you, there is a weird disconnect in the way GT7 looks in the trailers, cars are amazing and environment fidelity is meh! I understand that's not where your main focus is when driving the game but I immensely enjoy driving in beautiful environments, it's a big part what stages I play casually so I really hope they can bump the vegetation quality.
PG leagues ahead of PD in terms of quality and technical prowess now. Open world game with that level of details crazy. Cars look great in GT but environment are PS3 level. GT7 no different in videos


Just wait till they release Fable. Graphics will put everything else to shame lol
 

scalman

Member
Time for a new engine maybe?
they allways use previous forza engine modified on this so after forza 8 will come out , next horizon probably will use that
and they still need all those X1 sales
still play FH4 on gtx 1060 6gb laptop 1080p all maxed getting about 50-60 fps . so guess new one will work just fine on 1080p again . better then on Series S
 
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RT is really demanding, actually it has quite an impact on performance on PC games such as CP2077 or Control, my 3080 can't handle 4k @ 60fps with RT, not even close, how is people expecting PS5 or SX can handle that with much weaker hardware?
 

Raekwon26

Member
PG leagues ahead of PD in terms of quality and technical prowess now. Open world game with that level of details crazy. Cars look great in GT but environment are PS3 level. GT7 no different in videos


Just wait till they release Fable. Graphics will put everything else to shame lol
Like Halo Infinite...................right?
 

GHG

Gold Member
I played more RT games than you. I played Spiderman as well. Unlike you, i own all consoles and a gtx 3070 PC.


Cyberpunk leagues ahead in terms of RT. Miles look good but you can see limitation of hardware when it comes to RT. But if you want to believe otherwise, go ahead. Lol



Environment in Forza are way more detailed than Spiderman or WD even with RT thanks to photogammetry technology.

I can't believe you're even here still trying to chat shit:

Pretty graphics alone don't make game nextgen. Its the whole game design which defines whether game is current or nextgen game. If whole game is running on base PS4 then you can't call it next gen as its design around limitations of old PS4 hardware.

I meam Game doesn't even support RT or native 4k60fps mode.

Ratchet looks nextgen but Horizon is very pretty looking current gen game. There is nothing on Forbidden west that not possible on PS4 design wise. So its a CURRENT GEN GAME.


Graphics looks very pretty in Metro Exodus as well on Ultra High pc with Full on RT but that doesn't make it nextgen.

Cyberpunk on 3080 with full on RT on looks insanely good but its not nextgen.

All these "not really next gen" games that we will have to suffer for the whole generation.

Sit down, be humble.
 
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Dibils2k

Member
This doesn't look any different from Forza Horizon 4 on PC.

Frustrated Clint Eastwood GIF
 

anthony2690

Banned
I didn't know either, but I might just not be very tech savvy when it comes to graphics kind of stuff. I still thought it looked great and is currently the best looking racing game.
My guess would be screen space reflections. :)
I've noticed a lot of people keep mixing SSR and RT up.
But I think it just shows how good Screen Space Reflections are now.
 

assurdum

Banned
RT is really demanding, actually it has quite an impact on performance on PC games such as CP2077 or Control, my 3080 can't handle 4k @ 60fps with RT, not even close, how is people expecting PS5 or SX can handle that with much weaker hardware?
Because different games handle raytracing on ps5? I mean one can start to think Epic wasn't wrong at all when say low api on ps5 allow more things on raytratcing not possible with direct X if even a first party can't get it on series X. Just an opinion.
 
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Raekwon26

Member
What Halo has to do with PG games?

Needless trolling?
How is it trolling?

It's actually very accurate. Writing checks before seeing anything.............. sounds like Halo Infinite of last year. That was supposed to be a graphical showcase and........... yeah.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Strictly talking about RT here. Never said they nextgen. Idk why you getting butt hurt over lol

Hey I'm not the one butthurt, I've been enjoying the good looking games that are already here and I'm looking forward to appreciating all of these future good looking games without prejudice instead of tripping over myself changing the narrative as to what qualifies as "next gen" and what doesn't.
 
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Hey I'm not the one butthurt, I've been enjoying the good looking games that are already and I'm looking forward to appreciating all of these future good looking games without prejudice instead of tripping over myself changing the narrative as to what qualifies as "next gen" and what doesn't.



Enjoy.
 
People are really expecting gpu taxing ray tracing in an open world highly detailed racing game or is it concern trolling in full effect?
Well, when you hype up gamers with things like “world’s most powerful console” and 12 TFLOPS you know people’s expectations are going to be really high and even unrealistic at times.
 
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Because different games handle raytracing on ps5? I mean one can start to think Epic wasn't wrong at all when say low api on ps5 allow more things on raytratcing not possible with direct X if even a first party can't get it on series X. Just an opinion.
You still posting nonsense after the whole checkerboard rendering rubbish?
 

NXGamer

Member
well the context is here:


does this say that the reflections in the show GT7 footage is 1080cb, meaning 1080p but achieved through reconstruction (most likely Checkerboarding, maybe interlacing)

The CB is FROM a 1080p base UP TO 2160P Reconstructed Output. This is an early WIP build though and will likely improve as I think here the RT reflections were just drawn at 1080. These can and will improve as R&C had qtr res Reflections when I was testing pre-launch and then were bumped upto 2160P on day 1 patch AND improved performance in the Fidelity mode.
 

assurdum

Banned
You still posting nonsense after the whole checkerboard rendering rubbish?

The CB is FROM a 1080p base UP TO 2160P Reconstructed Output. This is an early WIP build though and will likely improve as I think here the RT reflections were just drawn at 1080. These can and will improve as R&C had qtr res Reflections when I was testing pre-launch and then were bumped upto 2160P on day 1 patch AND improved performance in the Fidelity mode.
Happy now?
 
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assurdum

Banned
No, because Alex said something different. Now you can pick whom to believe :messenger_beaming:
Alex never said exactly it's 1080 reconstructed anyway. But sure you believe whatever you want. In any case I have no problem to admit a mistake differently to people like you which waste their time more just to waaarrrzzz indeed to talk about tech stuff.
 
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sobaka770

Banned
I don't get the whole jerk-off for racing games graphics. They look good for the most part across the board, especially in static shots because the devs have so little to focus on in terms of physics, simulation etc. Whether GT7, F9, FH5 - they will all look good enough to breeze past at high speed especially with 30FPS target. I mean some people still think Driveclub (early last gen game) is some marvel of graphics tech.

As for negatives: there's very visible LOD and shadow pop-in in the actual gameplay footage all over the place (which is quite jarring tbh and hopefully will be fixed) and the water/plant physics seem of varying quality. Basically the static geometry using 12K scans or whatever looks good but it still lacks the realism when cars come into play.

For cross-gen it looks quite good, I hope once development stops for older consoles these things will get ironed out with new SSD-leveraging techniques. It's definitely better looking than Dirt 5 and I don't think any new NFS is on the horizon (har har).
 
Regarding GT7, why are people still arguing about something that's subject to change.

Sony/Polyphony deserve a little credit for showing GT7 gameplay early (instead of just in-engine footage). But we've seen Insomniac, only a few days ago with Ratchet, push out an update that increased the resolution of its reflections - games in development are subject to change because they're still being worked on / optimised.
 
Because different games handle raytracing on ps5? I mean one can start to think Epic wasn't wrong at all when say low api on ps5 allow more things on raytratcing not possible with direct X if even a first party can't get it on series X. Just an opinion.

Man, I'm sorry but I don't buy it. RT development is still in early stage, I'm sure it will improve in the next few years, but as of now it has an impact on performance, whether on consoles or on PC, and that's not an opinion, it's a fact.

I respect you believing that, but honestly, weaker hardware will struggle dealing with RT, whether they use low api, or DirectX.
 
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Little Chicken

Gold Member
Pushing this level of detail in an open world within a year of a console release and developed with unfinished tools is really impressive.

I think we'll see a similar jump with FH6 like we did with FH2 to FH3 on X1.
 

scalman

Member
shame as its open world they still dont care about off road fans , they should make special hard to tackle off road tracks and make low range gears on those 4x4 and better suspension for that. i mean its not that hard. but just drive and have fun is their moto
all those visuals that we care only on trailers... when we start to play game it will just look great as it is rly... well the nsome ppl dont play games at all they just argue here who has better graphics all times lol
 
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Maybe this is a low IQ thought as I don't play many racing games (I did enjoy Forza Horizon 4) but you can surely fake reflections on a car and it won't be that noticeable when you are bombing along at 200MPH.

RT reflections are a much bigger deal for slower paced third person action stuff (or photomode I guess) where you can tell if the reflections are accurate or not.

RT reflections have also been hit and miss so far in the stuff I've played on console. Control was ok but very noisy and I didn't want to play at 30fps, they didn't look good in Watchdogs and 30fps again (console at least) and only look impressive in the linear levels in Spider-Man and can be very low res and cut back in the open world. Ratchet has impressed me but you can still clearly see the RT noise and cut back vegetation and the levels I've played so far are either very dense but fairly linear or open but fairly empty so there are clearly limitations even in next gen only games.

They look amazing in Cyberpunk 2077 on PC but I don't want to play at 30fps with DLSS so turn them off there even.

If you can fake it with SSR, cube maps etc surely better to have the performance?
 
tsdn0Qq.jpg


Does RT even matter when people initially though it was photography?

RT is just one of ways to make graphic nice and realistic and not every game have to use RT for next gen graphic IMO.
Big open natural environments won't really benefit from Raytraced reflections, RTGI would but as I explained earlier it is probably too performance intensive for Series X (PS5 even more so). The cars would really improve with reflections but given the rendering budget for the incredibly detailed environment its obviously not doable.
 
I have not watched the DF video here, I am just talking about CB techniques and what we have seen in past RT titles such as Spiderman, R&C and even Watchdogs.
Hi, was wondering if you're doing any tech videos on Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite? Did either impress you at all?
 

assurdum

Banned
Man, I'm sorry but I don't buy it. RT development is still in early stage, I'm sure it will improve in the next few years, but as of now it has an impact on performance, whether on consoles or on PC, and that's not an opinion, it's a fact.

I respect you believing that, but honestly, weaker hardware will struggle dealing with RT, whether they use low api, or DirectX.
Low API allow to handle raytracing better because you can tweak it easily as lowering the LOD details and other similar stuff just to save perfomance. Using Direct X you have less access to such option because you work with an higher level of abstraction. That's why introduce raytracing on series X at different levels could be more complicate and Forza uses it just in photomode at higher setting. Just my guess. Spiderman was multiplatform, open world and still got raytracing on ps5 after all.

Very solid argumentation by Riky as always. It take more time than expected. So introspective and mature. When it's not PR stuff lol emoticon and you save your day.
 
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Three

Gold Member
The concern trolling around no RT and photo mode is doubly funny once you realize that GT7 RT is something like 720p native and that 95% of R&C screenshots I see around the forum are from photo mode :messenger_beaming: I also award an extra point for the "invisible RT" in Forbidden West.

FH5 is the best looking car game by far, with or without RT.
I love how your enthusiasm for raytracing just flip-flops all over the place depending on who is doing it and who isn't doing it. Now of course when FH isn't doing it it's "who cares about ray tracing let me make up fake resolutions for games that haven't released yet"

So make up your mind.
Well you're out of luck, because raytracing is the future.
Imagine Splinter Cell... with raytracing.

DTXO87gX0AUEc71.jpg

Play through Metro Exodus with raytracing on. Then try playing through it again with raytracing off. Suddenly you'll notice the fake lighting everywhere and it will look fake and gamey as fuck. It's one of those things where it doesn't seem like a big deal until you've really experienced it.

Off topic, but these (cherry picked?) underwhelming Ratchet screenshots just show how much the game would profit off raytraced global illumination. We need more power!

The raytracing in Spiderman is very, very basic, especially in performance mode. Shadows also don't tax the hardware that much, that's why AMD performs really well in Dirt 5 (PC with RT shadows) and WoW (RT shadows).

Ratchet looks bloody great and you're a plonka.
 
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Maybe this is a low IQ thought as I don't play many racing games (I did enjoy Forza Horizon 4) but you can surely fake reflections on a car and it won't be that noticeable when you are bombing along at 200MPH.

RT reflections are a much bigger deal for slower paced third person action stuff (or photomode I guess) where you can tell if the reflections are accurate or not.

RT reflections have also been hit and miss so far in the stuff I've played on console. Control was ok but very noisy and I didn't want to play at 30fps, they didn't look good in Watchdogs and 30fps again (console at least) and only look impressive in the linear levels in Spider-Man and can be very low res and cut back in the open world. Ratchet has impressed me but you can still clearly see the RT noise and cut back vegetation and the levels I've played so far are either very dense but fairly linear or open but fairly empty so there are clearly limitations even in next gen only games.

They look amazing in Cyberpunk 2077 on PC but I don't want to play at 30fps with DLSS so turn them off there even.

If you can fake it with SSR, cube maps etc surely better to have the performance?
RT reflections would be a huge waste in this game. It would just be a check box for morons. Only people shitting on fh5 are Warriors full stop.
 

OZ9000

Banned
Ok.

I was wrong.

It does look better than Forza Horizon 4 on PC (just booted it up to play).

However, the difference doesn't qualify for a next gen leap, especially at 4k30.

Either way, if it comes to gamepass PC I'll try it out.
 
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