polybius80
Member
wich game uses 10% of the system power? from where comes this percentage?
what low resolution? you are not talking about the the touryst are you?
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DF: The Touryst PS5 - The First 8K 60fps Console Game
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Yes, love the game, but graphically it's not pushing anything.
Three Jackdaws
Banned
We’re almost approaching the first year of launch for each console and considering what both platforms have offered both in terms of lineup and performance per game then we can conclude that there was no redemption needed for Cerny.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
It's pushing when it is at 8K 60.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Where he say that?
Theres a difference between saying how they got the ps5 version to 8k and confirming its not possible to get the xsx version to 8k.
Md Ray
Member
Despite the game creator's confirmation, you're still in denial, I see.
From DF article: "Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference."
They literally repeat the same thing even in the vid.
TaiLopezFan
Member
Except UE5 was literally built in cooperation with PS5 and PS5 is probably the only console out right now that is best suited for UE5. Tim Sweeny and Epic Games collaborated with Sony in building PS5.
Epic Worked 'Super-Closely' with Sony on PS5 for a Long Time, It's Been a Primary Focus - Sweeney
Epic founder Tim Sweeney revealed that the company's engineers have been working 'super-closely' and for a long time with Sony on PS5.
Rea
Member
Md Ray
Member
I think Shin'en likes to go for 100% lock in terms of framerate stability on all the platforms and they likely found dips under 60fps at 8K on XSX so they went with whatever was the standard 16:9 res below 8K (which happened to be 6K: 5760x3240) to ensure a 100% lock in framerate.
Kinda like how Hitman 3 runs at 44% higher-res on XSX compared to PS5 even though the XSX isn't exactly 44% more powerful, but 1800p just so happens to be one notch below 2160p.
I'm not the one comparing these 2 things, Shin'en itself is. I don't see any problem with that.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The first quote of me was in the context that there are more higher res games on the xsx then the ps5.
I wish DF would of made it more clear that higher clocks and memory make the 8k difference in comparison to the xsx version.
More information is needed from the developer, because 77% more pixels caused by a 22% higher clock and different memory setuo does not make much sense judging how other multiplats perform.
Also lol at your provocative "denial" accusations. Like thats going to help the conversation.... No need to be a dick about things.
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Md Ray
Member
Lol, looks like it's simply hard for you to digest facts, even with the dev's confirmation. Even on the other thread, you couldn't so it's not a surprise.
Have a good day/night, sir!
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I mean that's pretty cut and dry, if they are specifically referencing the difference between the xbox and ps5 version.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I just did lol.
But the question is why wouldn't anyone be more curious about how this game is delivering 77% more pixels on a platform which rarely has any advantage over the xsx.
FranXico
Member
Yes, at frequencies that are too high, the compute untis can't properly parallelize operation anymore.
Md Ray
Member
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Maybe. I would also like to know how much of an impact rewriting the engine to take advantage of PS5's low-level graphics APIs had.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Maybe the frames are small enough to fit into the PS5 on chip memory
FranXico
Member
The Touryst is not a hardware performance benchmark and neither is Hitman 3.
I suspect a lot of the biggest performance discrepancies are down to liberal use of GNMX, but technical analysts seem to have no interest in asking questions about this.
Evilms
Banned
it can't be made any clearer
unless you have trouble understanding it, then there's nothing more we can do for you.
The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5
Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…
www.eurogamer.net
Physiognomonics
Member
I agree. The devs themselves gave 3 reasons: 2 hardware (clocks, memory setup) and one software (native PS5 coding). But it also shows that using native PS5 API (GNM
My point being I think many current PS5 cross-gen games are not using native PS5 APIs (why would they when it's so easy to run PS4 code on PS5?) which means the future non cross-gen games could show big performance improvements once they'll start using native PS5 API.
EDIT: I meant GNM not GNMX.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Read the thread, ive already aknoledged what the devs said about higher clocks, memory setup and rewriting the engine to take advantage of the PS5s APi's which result in 8k compared to the XSX's 6k.it can't be made any clearer
unless you have trouble understanding it, then there's nothing more we can do for you.
The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5
Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…
Evilms
Banned
Since yesterday you've been doing your damage control, you're having a hard time digesting the fact that the PS5 can have the upper hand on the XSX in some cases when the devs have already clearly explained why on this game it is.
You've been pretending not to understand for several pages now, even though everything is clear.
Tell yourself that it doesn't matter that the PS5 does better on this game, you'll see that it will get better afterwards.
FranXico
Member
GNM (not GNMX) is the low level API for both PS4 and PS5, naturally extended in the new platform.
What I was alluding to is the high-level GNMX layer which makes porting engines over from a DirectX based implementation much easier by providing an adapter that converts types and calls, but this facility comes at the cost of a runtime overhead.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Since yesterday you've been doing your damage control, you're having a hard time digesting the fact that the PS5 can have the upper hand on the XSX in some cases when the devs have already clearly explained why on this game it is.
You've been pretending not to understand for several pages now, even though everything is clear.
Tell yourself that it doesn't matter that the PS5 does better on this game, you'll see that it will get better afterwards.
No, believe or not there are actually people interested in tech and wonder why the pixel difference is so vast in this game.
It is the biggest pixel difference this gen on a native game, on a platform that has seen lower resolutions on a number of games.
I dont have a hard time understanding that in some edge cases the ps5 may have the upper hand what i dont understand is why the pixel advantage on this game is so vast.
I dont think anyone expected the PS5s design would allow 77% more pixels.
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Die Namek Ability
Member
Its probably just down to the XsX, in this case, not being able to lock to 60 at 8k. Additionally, because its only outputting at 4k the devs probably didnt want the framerate to take a hit just to smooth some edges. In reality its probably alot closeer to the 21% advantage the PS5 has here but the break points didnt line up, if that makes sense?
Edit: As others have stated, i also think this was the case for hitman but in the reverse.
Edit: I think i came up with an analogy that might help. There are two bars, lets call them Bar 5 and Bar X. Neither of these bars will serve a drink that is not full to the brim. Bar 5 can pour 8 oz drinks so it chooses an 8oz glass. Bar X can pour 7.5 oz drinks but it cant use the 8oz glass because it wont serve a drink that is not to the brim. The solution, Bar X choses a 6 oz glass and ignores the wasted 1.5 oz.
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thismeinteil
Member
God, this makes me want a 4K/8K 60FPS remake of 3D Dot Game Heroes.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
In the end all this "technical" discussion was pointless and unnecessary.
The takeaway is what many already knew very well for a long time already, that rather than Cerny having lied about anything (did he need to lie? To whom?) the case was that a bunch of people needed a lie to believe.
I hope that this changes with time and these desperate people will learn to abandon their primitive thinking and find a new appreciation for tech, so they can have fun understanding how these things work and enjoy seeing the different results instead of just getting mad (like in madness).
The takeaway is what many already knew very well for a long time already, that rather than Cerny having lied about anything (did he need to lie? To whom?) the case was that a bunch of people needed a lie to believe.
I hope that this changes with time and these desperate people will learn to abandon their primitive thinking and find a new appreciation for tech, so they can have fun understanding how these things work and enjoy seeing the different results instead of just getting mad (like in madness).
Physiognomonics
Member
Yes, indeed, I was talking about GNM (the low level api).
Darius87
Member
that is just set resolutions on both platforms it doesn't mean there's exactly that big of a gap in resolution what's most likely is happening that XSX can't sustain 60FPS on 8K so devs made 6K to reach 60FPS in every edge case let's say if XSX would had dynamic resolution it most likely would reach above 6K most of the time.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yes, that does sound plausible.
Also if we remember when the touryst patch was done for the series consoles the dev environment was half baked.
I would not be surprised if the touryst had less performance on the xsx because of its underperforming dev environment. Shishin games probably dont feel the need to go back to the xsx version because there is not much demand for 8k.
ethomaz
Banned
Yes they are.
The paragraph is about why PS5 is 8k and Series X 6k.
DF even call the elephant in the room.
And the dev says that in the case of their engine the increase in clock and the difference in memory setup made the difference.
Yhe article btw: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-the-touryst-8k-60fps-on-ps5
IMO if I have to guess 8k60fps in this engine needed more pixel filtrate and/or more than 10GB of fast memory.
That is not a surprise because 8k is four times more expensive than 4k.
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FrankWza
Member
rickybooby87
Member
polybius80
Member
you called it low resolution despite it being the first 8k of the gen and instead of understand your mistake and question what it does how they achieve it you double down
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Might be what he means, but the context of what he says sure seems different. Something like "Series X was already at 6K, so this small difference" which sounds like he's comparing the small difference in resolution between 6K and 8K
polybius80
Member
the developer mentioned it was because the memory setup and the speed, you are having a hard time accepting their explanation that in their game and their engine it just run better on PS5 due to difference in speed and memory setup
the argument of "other games having more resolution" dont really sustain itself as engines get better over time and the hardware is better used as well as different developers with different resources, time and knowledge how to make the game and use the system better as well as different game do things different and have different requirements, you can ask anybody interested in tech and how it works not only they will tell you the same but also will point to basically any console generation with numerous games as example of how things improve how they achieved their improvements
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I literally said in the post u quoted that i understand the devs explanation.
Engines do get better over time, but that does not nullify the fact that huge resolution increase in the touryst is an anomaly.
polybius80
Member
the dev explained why
an anomaly? yes totally, well programed and adapted ports are an anomaly XD most devs do the bare minimum or cant do more, lot of times for reasons outside their control, lot of indie games will probably run at 8k too in better circumstances but engines catch over time and there are very capable developers too what today is an anomaly may be more common in the future
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I would be interested in hearing more from the dev about the XSXs bottlenecks which prevent 8k.
However, you are content with the devs explanation, thats fine, we dont have to agree.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
DF is something else.According to DF:
Below HD on PS3 vs 720p on 360 - Big difference
900p on X1 vs 1080p on PS4 - Small difference
1440p on PS4Pro vs 4K on X1X - Big difference
1800p on PS5 vs 4K on XSX - Big difference
6K on XSX vs 8K on PS5 - Small difference
Those returns sure keep diminishing and growing all the time.
This part below really bugs me too.
That's not entirely true. The X1X has more CUs and runs at a slower clock but isnt more powerful than the PS5, is it?
You need Clocks AND CUs or tflops to gauge whether or not a GPU is more powerful. In XSX's case, their tflops number indicates that is more powerful. So for them to say that more CUs means more performance is silly.
The X1x had only 4 more CUs or 10% more CUs than the PS4 Pro. By their logic, the performance shouldve been 10%, but the majority of the performance advantage the x1x enjoyed was due to the much higher clocks. 28% higher clocks. that combined with 10% more CUs and a much higher memory bandwidth allowed the x1x to push 44% more pixels on average and 100% more pixels in several cases like Shadow of Tomb Raider, RDR2, Wolfenstein and Far Cry 5 which were all native 4k on the x1x.
We have seen that with the xss as well. The GPU is only 1/3rd less powerful than the xsx, but performs far worse at around 1/4th the resolution in most games. You can chalk it up to ram bandwidth but the slower clocks might be a bottleneck too. The PS5 isnt even 3x more powerful like the xsx is. It is roughly 2.5x more powerful but pushes 4x more pixels in games like Metro. So clearly, the hardware is either outperforming its tflops count due to higher clocks, or the xss is underperforming due to slower clocks.
Either way, saying higher CUs equals more performance is simply inaccurate.
SmurfMustard
Member
People willingly getting banned over the Touryst. Of all games, this is the hill you want to die on. I mean the stupidity concerning plastic box preference knows no bounds here, but the Touryst, really?
I think the people you see that's banned got banned in the Call of Duty beta thread
nah you can see in the Bans page what post got them banned. It's from here.
There's been quite a purge lately lols
Physiognomonics
Member
If you are talking about The Medium both versions have very different graphics settings, that is an apple and orange comparison.
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