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[GametimeUK]

PS5 stops applying vrr smoothing if the frame dips below 48 fps. Xbox's vrr solution keeps smoothing the framerate until 40 fps.

What you are noticing is likely frames dropping below 48 fps. Try switching to performance mode which doesnt drop below 48 fps too much. You might be using quality mode which stays below 50 fps almost all the time.

This makes sense! I thought I was going crazy. Thank you.

 

[SLB1904]

That's how VRR works. The screen changes it's refresh rate to match the content. If you turn VRR off it doesn't.

i thought it was the case, just wanted to make sure,

Doesn’t VRR get the tv to match frames it receives? You might be just seeing the frame output instead of tv normal speed.

yeah i thought it was.

Isn't your TV frame rate info just showing that the output is locked at 60hz, not the games frame rate ?

thats what i suspect, becaquse that sure wasbt smooth

 

[Shwing]

Yeah, it crossed my mind - since I'm upgrading my gaming TV I should step the size up a notch - so instead of going 55", I'm now targeting 65" - more precisely the 65XR90J.

I went to see how much price different there was between it and the LG C1 in 65" - suffice to say LG's price it's prohibitive for me.

Have you tried 65XR90J VRR on PS5?

Yeah that's the exact model I have 65XR90J.
Regarding VRR, haven't had a chance to test it yet - will do and let you know.

 

[MasterCornholio]

PS5 stops applying vrr smoothing if the frame dips below 48 fps. Xbox's vrr solution keeps smoothing the framerate until 40 fps.

What you are noticing is likely frames dropping below 48 fps. Try switching to performance mode which doesnt drop below 48 fps too much. You might be using quality mode which stays below 50 fps almost all the time.

I think that’s because the game isn’t patched for VRR. With the patch games can run under 48FPs if the results I’m seeing are true.

 

[omegasc]

I think most people only actually tested Ratchet or Spider-Man, and the fidelity mode in these seems completely broken at the moment.

I already shared what I think is happening there, I basically think that 2 facors are responsible for the results we see in those games.

the first factor is that the games use a dynamic res in every mode as far as I'm aware, and with an unlocked framerate the dynamic res doesn't know what to do.

the second factor might be how the 120hz fidelity mode was coded. it Originally targeted 120hz by sending out 1 new frame followed by 2 duplicates to "stretch" 40fps into 120hz
so I think that is still happening to a degree when VRR is active, and is why we see constant jumps from 120hz down to 70hz or 48hz and instantly back up to 120hz again

I think the game needs a patch basically.

and I have not seen anyone try any other game currently that would support LFC at 120hz or 60hz

Yeah I wouldn't go as far to say it's broken, but it could be better. VRR is working as intended but the game could use a tweak to keep 48+fps.
Whenever it drops below 48, v-sync 120hz engages again, and it does its stuff to lock to 40fps (1 frame + 2 duplicates as you mentioned). This seems to be happening frequently, making it not look as fluid as it should.
Right now, I believe the 48~120hz applies to all VRR stuff, not only to "unsupported games".

This happens only in Fidelity mode, and it is very similar to what Elden Ring feels like in Quality mode, but this one is even worse due to going below 40 frequently.

 

[omegasc]

I think that’s because the game isn’t patched for VRR. With the patch games can run under 48FPs if the results I’m seeing are true.

results seem to be so mixed right now. I am more inclined to believe that 48fps lower limit applies even to supported games.
I hope it's 40 though, as it's what my TV does

 

[Shmunter]

Why doesn’t the console just double frames when below 60?

 

[RydarGaf]

results seem to be so mixed right now. I am more inclined to believe that 48fps lower limit applies even to supported games.
I hope it's 40 though, as it's what my TV does

No game on PS5 has LFC support unless its specifically patched in at the game level. LFC isnt automatically enabled along side vrr enabled games running within a 120hz container. According to John from Digital Foundry

 

[omegasc]

No game on PS5 has LFC support unless its specifically patched in at the game level. LFC isnt automatically enabled along side vrr enabled games running within a 120hz container. According to John from Digital Foundry

Looks like Spider-Man has LFC after all, also according to John. Insomniac really cares about their PS5 games huh?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Looks like Spider-Man has LFC after all, also according to John. Insomniac really cares about their PS5 games huh?

Insomniac give their games a ton of support. I wish other devs did the same as them. I’m not just talking about 1st party devs btw.

 

[RydarGaf]

. I 2ish Looks like Spider-Man has LFC after all, also according to John. Insomniac really cares about their PS5 games huh?

Insomniac is the exception to the rule. I wish more devs were like them

 

[MasterCornholio]

Insomniac is the exception to the rule. I wish more devs were like them

I’m sure it will get better. It’s not like the hardware isn’t capable of more.

 

[Shmunter]

LFC sounds like a big badass thing with such an acronym where it's nothing but the source doubling it's framerate by repeating a frame twice. Don't see why system wide the console just can't double anything below 60fps when in a 120hz container. Everything would then maximise the TV's abilities.

 

[remember_spinal]

Oh jeez another acronym??

 

[Gamerguy84]

Oh jeez another acronym??

IKR

 

[SlimySnake]

No game on PS5 has LFC support unless its specifically patched in at the game level. LFC isnt automatically enabled along side vrr enabled games running within a 120hz container. According to John from Digital Foundry

I am sorry but if your framerate is dipping below 48 fps then perhaps you should optimize the fucking game.

regardless, this should only affect 1 game on the console and hopefully all games coming out from here on in will have LFC support built in. though id hope they dont have their 60 fps modes drop all the way down to 40 fps just because of vrr.

 

[RydarGaf]

I am sorry but if your framerate is dipping below 48 fps then perhaps you should optimize the fucking game.

regardless, this should only affect 1 game on the console and hopefully all games coming out from here on in will have LFC support built in. though id hope they dont have their 60 fps modes drop all the way down to 40 fps just because of vrr.

I dunno, that unreal engine 5 demo of the Matrix was extremely demanding.

40fps gaming with vrr/LFC might be the only way to make true next gen games viable

 

[Shmunter]

I dunno, that unreal engine 5 demo of the Matrix was extremely demanding.

40fps gaming with vrr/LFC might be the only way to make true next gen games viable

If the only way a game is viable is with VRR then the game is a failure. VRR sets are not the standard today, and likely not for a long time yet.

 

[RydarGaf]

If the only way a game is viable is with VRR then the game is a failure. VRR sets are not the standard today, and likely not for a long time yet.

That's true, but in cases of those who didn't upgrade to current gen display, their games would be locked to 1440p/30fps.

The 1440p/40FPS with uncapped framerate would be reserved for those with next gen TV sets that support VRR/LFC. LoL

 

[Rea]

Xbox One VRR & LFC misinformation rampant.

www.avsforum.com

For those who's interested.

 

[Shmunter]

That's true, but in cases of those who didn't upgrade to current gen display, their games would be locked to 1440p/30fps.

The 1440p/40FPS with uncapped framerate would be reserved for those with next gen TV sets that support VRR/LFC. LoL

Yeah, a perk is fine - but the game needs to be viable for those without, lol

 

[jaysius]

If the only way a game is viable is with VRR then the game is a failure. VRR sets are not the standard today, and likely not for a long time yet.

It's awesome that people that have the money to dish out for the mid-high tech can utilize all of the features of the TV.

I agree though it's a very very rotten crutch.

 

[kyliethicc]

So trying to summarize:


Standard HDMI Forum VRR via HDMI 2.1 is 48-120 Hz.

This the ’Apply to Unsupported Games‘ option on PS5. (example - Elden Ring)


Adding in low framerate compensation lowers this range to 24-120 Hz.

This is what seems to require a game patch on PS5. ‘Supported Games.’ (example - Spider-man)


Additionally, various TVs have VRR range minimums of 20/24/30/40/48 Hz.

 

[Shmunter]

So trying to summarize:


Standard HDMI Forum VRR via HDMI 2.1 is 48-120 Hz.

This the ’Apply to Unsupported Games‘ option on PS5. (example - Elden Ring)


Adding in low framerate compensation lowers this range to 24-120 Hz.

This is what seems to require a game patch on PS5. ‘Supported Games.’ (example - Spider-man)


Additionally, various TVs have VRR range minimums of 20/24/30/40/48 Hz.

Are we sure about various TVs have VRR range minimums of 20/24/30/40/48 Hz.

Suspect when it's 20 its actually "LFC" - code for 40hz signal in reality

 

[VanCityGamer]

I have PSVR hooked up (new version). Does anyone know if VRR will work if I buy two Ultra High Speed HDMI cables?

 

[Shmunter]

I have PSVR hooked up (new version). Does anyone know if VRR will work if I buy two Ultra High Speed HDMI cables?

Sadly don't think so. I don't see the option at all with PSVR hooked up - must be under the PSVR limits your junk catch all statement under video settings. Can't do 120hz wih psvr for example.

 

[VanCityGamer]

Sadly don't think so. I don't see the option at all with PSVR hooked up - must be under the PSVR limits your junk catch all statement under video settings. Can't do 120hz wih psvr for example.

OK thanks. That sucks though. I really would like the ability to use VRR in PS5 games, but also want to keep VR hooked up. Ugh!

 

[01011001]

Unfortunately LFC doesn't work unless you have at least 2.5x the refresh rate. Technically the TV or monitor COULD do 58Hz out of 60Hz, it won't work that way.

I have lots of experience with LFC from my PC days. You NEED 2.5x the refresh rate for LFC to kick in.

you can't compare PC to console. I use LFC for Elden Ring on Xbox because it can dip below 48hz and my old ass TV only supports 48hz-120hz, and the game literally AT ALL TIMES doubles the frames it renders. so if it is at 60fps it sends out 120hz, if it is at 50fps it's 100hz and so on. it never deviates from that at any point. and every game on Xbox works that way

Resident Evil 8, Watch Dogs 3, Elden Ring, Sekiro etc. they all work that way because the Xbox has build in LFC for games that run at 60fps and below when 120hz is engaged, and I'm pretty sure the same is the case for 30fps and below when 60hz is engaged

so this seems to be yet another thing that the Xbox's VRR implementation does better than the PS5's and something the PS5 would benefit from should Sony be interested to implement this down the line.

 

[Shmunter]

OK thanks. That sucks though. I really would like the ability to use VRR in PS5 games, but also want to keep VR hooked up. Ugh!

Same here, but personally VRR takes a back seat to VR for me.

Just like all the hoopla over 120hz - played games with it for a while and it was far from a game changer over 60, to me at least. Happily went back to 60 with increased gfx.

Can't think of a game I own or play that is desperate for VRR.

 

[Shmunter]

you can't compare PC to console. I use LFC for Elden Ring on Xbox because it can dip below 48hz and my old ass TV only supports 48hz-120hz, and the game literally AT ALL TIMES doubles the frames it renders. so if it is at 60fps it sends out 120hz, if it is at 50fps it's 100hz and so on. it nrver deviates from that at any point. and every game on Xbox works that way

That's all it takes really. And if framerate were to be unlocked beyond 60, just stop the doubling at that point.

 

[VanCityGamer]

Same here, personally VRR takes a back seat to VR for me.

Just like all the hoopla over 120hz - played games with it for a while and it was far from a game changer over 60, to me at least. Happily went back to 60 with increased gfx.

Yeah I’ll end up choosing keeping VR hooked up over VRR too. But still disappointing having to make that choice, since VRR is occasionally helpful on my Series X.

 

[Shmunter]

Yeah I’ll end up choosing keeping VR hooked up over VRR too. But still disappointing having to make that choice, since VRR is occasionally helpful on my Series X.

Options are always best. PSVR2 being USB3 should impose no restrictions on the hdmi output going forward.

 

[Gambit2483]

Which is more game changing? VRR or Ray Tracing?

 

[Rea]

Resident Evil 8, Watch Dogs 3, Elden Ring, Sekiro etc. they all work that way because the Xbox has build in LFC for games that run at 60fps and below when 120hz is engaged, and I'm pretty sure the same is the case for 30fps and below when 60hz is engaged

I'm not sure where you get the source of Sekiro' framerates data.
Sekiro has almost perfect framerates on PS5. And min framerates doesn’t fall below 52, according to VG.
So VRR should apply because it is within range 48-60hz.

Edit: just realized PS4 games didn't apply VRR on ps5..

 

[SLB1904]

I hope every game adopt insomniac 40fps trick.
Even tho ratchet and miles looked better at 30fps, I still prefer the performance Ray traced mode. Some for horizon. But will see

 

[01011001]

I'm not sure where you get the source of Sekiro' framerates data.
Sekiro has almost perfect framerates on PS5. And min framerates doesn’t fall below 52, according to VG.
So VRR should apply because it is within range 48-60hz.

Edit: just realized PS4 games didn't apply VRR on ps5..

also I'm talking about the VRR implementation on Xbox this has nothing to do with performance I'm just giving examples of how LFC works on Xbox and how it doubles every frame if set to 120hz for 60fps games

 

[Rea]

also I'm talking about the VRR implementation on Xbox this has nothing to do with performance I'm just giving examples of how LFC works on Xbox and how it doubles every frame of set to 120hz for 60fps games

But Sekiro on PS5 doesn't really need VRR anyway since it's performance is good without the VRR, just like many other ps4 games on ps5. Also i don't many games on PS5 which drops below 48hz anyway except for handful of games. But Sony needs to get the shit together, to make 120hz system wide.

Hopefully they will update.

 

[Gambit2483]

Which is more game changing? VRR or Ray Tracing?

Just curious of other's take, i.e. if you could only have one or the other

 

[Bramble]

Just curious of other's take, i.e. if you could only have one or the other

One has direct impact on actual gameplay and the other doesn't. Decide for yourself.

 

[SLB1904]

Just curious of other's take, i.e. if you could only have one or the other

Ray tracing, vrr would be useless if developers stick with locked framerate

 

[01011001]

But Sekiro on PS5 doesn't really need VRR anyway since it's performance is good without the VRR, just like many other ps4 games on ps5. Also i don't many games on PS5 which drops below 48hz anyway except for handful of games. But Sony needs to get the shit together, to make 120hz system wide.

Hopefully they will update.

again, I'm not talking about anything PS5 related, all I did is lay out how VRR works on Xbox with examples of games that work that way

 

[Rea]

.

 

[Rea]

Just curious of other's take, i.e. if you could only have one or the other

Raytracing.

 

[Nankatsu]

So I've read that VRR in XR-65X90J turns off local dimming if you enable VRR.

What does this mean? Image quality takes a hit?

 

[sncvsrtoip]

I am sorry but if your framerate is dipping below 48 fps then perhaps you should optimize the fucking game.

regardless, this should only affect 1 game on the console and hopefully all games coming out from here on in will have LFC support built in. though id hope they dont have their 60 fps modes drop all the way down to 40 fps just because of vrr.

what about uncapping 30fps game, without lfc it doesn't make much sense, with it it can be game changer

 

[GymWolf]

Which is more game changing? VRR or Ray Tracing?

Depends if you care more about eyecandy or fluidity during gameplay.

Gsync is on pc since forever and i doubt that majority of pc players would chose rtx over gsync if there was an actual choice to make.

But you can easily have both (with a modern gpu of course) so the question is a bit mute.

 

[rofif]

I hope every game adopt insomniac 40fps trick.
Even tho ratchet and miles looked better at 30fps, I still prefer the performance Ray traced mode. Some for horizon. But will see

Seriously. Valve took 1 week to implement 40,50hz implementation into steam deck with other fps caps

 

[01011001]

So I've read that VRR in XR-65X90J turns off local dimming if you enable VRR.

What does this mean? Image quality takes a hit?

your contrast in dark scenes will be significantly worse. Local Dimming turns off or dimms parts of the backlight to enhance black levels
this seems to be an issue with Sony TVs in general, which is why I will always say Samsung or LG OLED are the only 2 really good options for gaming TVs among the big brands. my 3 year old Samsung doesn't disable local Dimming while using VRR for example. and OLED of course doesn't have this issue in general

there are good budget options sometimes from other manufacturers tho

 

[Nankatsu]

your contrast in dark scenes will be significantly worse. Local Dimming turns off or dimms parts of the backlight to enhance black levels
this seems to be an issue with Sony TVs in general, which is why I will always say Samsung or LG OLED are the only 2 really good options for gaming TVs among the big brands. my 3 year old Samsung doesn't disable local Dimming while using VRR for example. and OLED of course doesn't have this issue in general

there are good budget options sometimes from other manufacturers tho

Hmm, I see. Thanks for explaining.

Is it a true Full Array LED limitation or something fixable with a firmware upgrade?

 

[01011001]

Hmm, I see. Thanks for explaining.

Is it a true Full Array LED limitation or something fixable with a firmware upgrade?

it's most likely a software or chipset issue. it's not an issue with the tech in general.
Like I said, Samsung full array LED TVs do not have this issue, at least the ones from 2019 and up, not sure if 2018 models have this issue.

not sure if LG LCD TVs have the issue either, but LGs LCD TVs in general are shockingly bad TVs, at least they were last time I was looking for TVs, they always got really bad contrast ratings and have really bad black levels.
that is kinda surprising because the OLED TVs are among the best out there of course, so it's weird to see that they apparently lack so much in their LCD lineup