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Five Top Female Players Accuse U.S. Soccer of Wage Discrimination

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L

LyleLanley

Banned
Five Top Female Players Accuse U.S. Soccer of Wage Discrimination - New York Times

Five key members of the United States women’s national soccer team, the reigning World Cup and Olympic champion, have filed a federal complaint charging U.S. Soccer with wage discrimination.

In the filing, the five players contend that the women’s team is the driving economic force for U.S. Soccer, the governing body for the sport in America, even as its players are paid far less than their counterparts on the men’s national team, said their lawyer, Jeffrey Kessler.

The players involved in the complaint are among the most prominent and decorated female athletes in the world: the co-captains Carli Lloyd and Becky Sauerbrunn, forward Alex Morgan, midfielder Megan Rapinoe and goalkeeper Hope Solo.

In their complaint — which was submitted to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the federal agency that enforces civil rights laws against workplace discrimination, on Wednesday — the players requested an investigation of U.S. Soccer. But in taking official action, they also thrust their team into a debate roiling in several sports, notably professional tennis, about equal pay for men and women.

“We have been quite patient over the years with the belief that the federation would do the right thing and compensate us fairly,” Lloyd, the most valuable player of last year’s Women’s World Cup, said in a statement released by the players and Mr. Kessler.

Solo was more blunt in the statement, directly comparing the women’s achievements with those of the men’s national team.

“The numbers speak for themselves,” Solo said. “We are the best in the world, have three World Cup championships, four Olympic championships and the USMNT get paid more to just show up than we get paid to win major championships.”
Continue reading the main story

Citing budget figures released last month by U.S. Soccer, Mr. Kessler said the players contend that they earned as little as 40 percent of what players on the United States men’s national team earned even as they marched to the team’s third world championship last year, and that they were shortchanged on everything from bonuses and appearance fees to per diems.
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T

Tenebrous

Member
Ikuu said:
How much money are they bringing in though.
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Don't more American's watch the women's national team play than the men's national team? I think it all stems from the obvious inequality in club football, where difference in revenue between the men's & women's game is massive.
 
A

arts&crafts

Member
Ikuu said:
How much money are they bringing in though.
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This is exactly what I had a conversation with a coworker about yesterday in regards to tennis. Also the fact that Women play 3 sets instead of 5 for men.

I mean I am all for equality but why would I pay someone the same money if they arent going to bring in the same money. For example why would I pay Brad Pitt and Allison Pill the same amount of money for a movie.

That being said though, how much money is there in american soccer? They are not even in the same league as other teams, at least in mens. So they may have a point.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
Well..they are entertainers. So there should be no equal pay unless they bring equal money. The question is how much money they bring?

People here on GAF said that women's team is more popular than male one. If it was FIFA it would make no sense to ask for equal pay, but they're complaining to USA's federation, which takes money from USA market. if women's team is truly more popular in America then they shouldn't get equal pay, they should get bigger pays.
 
T

Tenebrous

Member
arab said:
how does hope solo still have a career?
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Same reason Mayweather does. Domestic violence charges mean fuck all if you're a benefit to your countries sporting efforts, and from what I saw at the WWC, Solo is fucking awesome for a women's football keeper.
 
M

marrec

Banned
arts&crafts said:
This is exactly what I had a conversation with a coworker about yesterday in regards to tennis. Also the fact that Women play 3 sets instead of 5 for men.

I mean I am all for equality but why would I pay someone the same money if they arent going to bring in the same money. For example why would I pay Brad Pitt and Allison Pill the same amount of money for a movie.
Click to expand...

Well to be specific we're talking about soccer, not tennis. US Women's Soccer is definitely bigger than US Men's Soccer right now.
 
N

Nesotenso

Member
Tenebrous said:
Don't more American's watch the women's national team play than the men's national team? I think it all stems from the obvious inequality in club football, where difference in revenue between the men's & women's game is massive.
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no they don't. Now someone is going to bring up the ratings of last years WC finals.

marrec said:
Well to be specific we're talking about soccer, not tennis. US Women's Soccer is definitely bigger than US Men's Soccer right now.
Click to expand...

no it isn't
 
A

arts&crafts

Member
marrec said:
Well to be specific we're talking about soccer, not tennis. US Women's Soccer is definitely bigger than US Men's Soccer right now.
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Yea you are right (I am not in the united states) I updated my post. They may have a case as the USA mens soccer team probably doesnt even bring much money as they arent even close to other mens teams in europe.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Grant Wahl from SI:
Revenues for 4-year cycle: $60.2 million for US men, $51.2 million for US women. Women trending upward too.

iudkYCx.jpg
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Danny Page on Twitter:
To head off "But do the women bring in equal revenues?" bros: Yes. In FY2017 USWNT will pull in $8M more than USMNT:

N6zyyaq.jpg
Click to expand...

Grant Wahl's story for SI has additional numbers.
 
Kite

Kite

Member
I'm fine with this, US Women's soccer is far more popular and I assume they bring in more $$ so they should get paid at least the same if not more.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Tenebrous said:
Don't more American's watch the women's national team play than the men's national team? I think it all stems from the obvious inequality in club football, where difference in revenue between the men's & women's game is massive.
Click to expand...

If you look at the World Cup, Men won $9m compared to $2m for the Women.
 
T

toweringinferno

Member
Tenebrous said:
Don't more American's watch the women play than the men play? I think it all stems from the obvious inequality in club football, where difference in revenue between the men's & women's game is massive.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, Broadcasters pay more for men's football. You can't compare men and women's club football. You have more people watching lower leagues mens football than womens football and the women get paid more.

Edit: This is in England by the way. I don't know about USSF
 
F

FriedConsole

Banned
Nesotenso said:
no they don't. Now someone is going to bring up the ratings of last years WC finals.
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Yeah you could say more people watch the men's World Cup but even in America a good portion isn't watching for the inevitable poor showing of the men's team. (OK they overachieved last WC). I would say the women's team is more popular in America because America wants to watch America win.
 
M

Matt_

World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
They've got a point. It might be a different argument for league games but at an international team level where the women are clearly exceeding the men in their relevant competitions there is no excuse not to have pay parity
 
C

Confrontation

Member
Yeah, no. They'd get absolutely annihilated by lower league clubs in small European countries and those guys definitely don't make as much as they do. Stop whining.
 
N

Nesotenso

Member
marrec said:
:lol
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you are only using revenues from a WC year to back up your point? A lot of that revenue is because of domestic friendlies which the women play more in a year.

if anyone actually follows the sport, claiming that US women's soccer is more popular than the men's game is just asinine.

FriedConsole said:
I would say the women's team is more popular in America because America wants to watch America win.
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Wouldn't that be reflected in attendances and ratings ( not just isolated WC numbers) for matches?

I do want US Soccer, SUM to be more open about how much money the selling of tournament rights brings in. It is going to be harder to decipher anything right now because everything seems to be bundled together.

Having said that if the revenue generated in a year is more for the women, they should be paid more. The other demands like better match and travel conditions are also fair. Rapinoe tore her ACL on a shoddy surface. That hurts her earning potential.
 
T

Tenebrous

Member
Ikuu said:
If you look at the World Cup, Men won $9m compared to $2m for the Women.
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There's a difference between tournament earnings and wages/bonuses. The men's world cup is the most popular sporting event on the planet so it makes sense the prize money would be bigger there, but when it comes to wages & bonuses, surely the American governing body should be doing more to close the gap?
 
tkscz

tkscz

Member
arts&crafts said:
This is exactly what I had a conversation with a coworker about yesterday in regards to tennis. Also the fact that Women play 3 sets instead of 5 for men.

I mean I am all for equality but why would I pay someone the same money if they arent going to bring in the same money. For example why would I pay Brad Pitt and Allison Pill the same amount of money for a movie.

That being said though, how much money is there in american soccer? They are not even in the same league as other teams, at least in mens. So they may have a point.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. If the women are bringing in more money, then they deserve more pay, not equal, and it works vice verse. If they bring in nearly the same amount, then they should be paid the same. I believe men's and women's soccer are played with equal rules in times though. Also Allison Pill wasn't even in the movie as long as Brad Pitt was, nor got as many lines or screen time. I still don't understand why she felt she deserved the same amount of money he got.

Cornballer said:
Grant Wahl from SI:

Danny Page on Twitter:

Grant Wahl's story for SI has additional numbers.
Click to expand...

Then they should get MORE money, not equally as much.
 
E

everyday math

Banned
Confrontation said:
Yeah, no. They'd get absolutely annihilated by lower league clubs in small European countries and those guys definitely don't make as much as they do. Stop whining.
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What whining.....guess woman should just give up asking for better pay across the board since we're just whining. Screw gender equality.

They bring in more money and they actually WIN. Pay them what they deserve not 40%' of what men make which is terrible by the way.
 
T

Tenebrous

Member
Confrontation said:
Yeah, no. They'd get absolutely annihilated by lower league clubs in small European countries and those guys definitely don't make as much as they do. Stop whining.
Click to expand...

This is about as relevant to this dicussion as the colours of the cars on my road.

The nearest one is black.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
I didn't need data to know US Women's Soccer team makes more money.

1. They're good
2. They win titles

US Men's team is ass relative to other countries
 
J

Jokab

Member
In 2003, the Swedish women's national team played in the world cup finals against Germany on US soil, at around 3am Swedish local time. Despite this, they attracted something like 2 million viewers out of the country's 9 million, which any given men's game would hardly pull. However, it would still be ridiculous to say that women's football in Sweden is more popular then men's. The women's team are actually like top 5 (if not better) in the world, while the men are in the bottom top 30 or so. When it comes to the world cup, people will watch the women's football because it's exciting to watch Sweden win. That doesn't automatically make women's football more popular than men's.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
Confrontation said:
Yeah, no. They'd get absolutely annihilated by lower league clubs in small European countries and those guys definitely don't make as much as they do. Stop whining.
Click to expand...
It's not about skill. It's about how much revenue they bring in. If they bring in more then the mens team, they should earn more also.
 
B

Barzul

Member
Confrontation said:
Yeah, no. They'd get absolutely annihilated by lower league clubs in small European countries and those guys definitely don't make as much as they do. Stop whining.
Click to expand...

There's statistics showing they bring in more money than the men's team. How is it whining? They are better at the same sport than their male counterparts in the current structure of the game with sexes being split. That is a verifiable fact by what I consider the strongest metric of basing this claim on: number of trophies won.
 
B

Bleepey

Member
They bring in more money, are more popular, and win more games and not only win games but tournaments. Pay them their money.
 
R

RockTurtle

Member
this is an entertainment medium. if they bring in the viewership, merchandise sales, and attendance then they should be paid their due relative to the amount they bring in.

I assume US women's soccer is more popular than men's, so it would come to logic that they get paid as such.
 
M

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
Nesotenso said:
you are only using revenues from a WC year to back up your point? A lot of that revenue is because of domestic friendlies which the women play more in a year.

if anyone actually follows the sport, claiming that US women's soccer is more popular than the men's game is just asinine.
Click to expand...

Nobody was saying that women's soccer is more popular than men's soccer in general. What was said is that the USWNT is more popular than the USMNT. Which is demonstrably correct.
 
J

Jokab

Member
Barzul said:
There's statistics showing they bring in more money than the men's team. How is it whining? They are better at the same sport than their male counterparts in the current structure of the game with sexes being split. That is a verifiable fact by what I consider the strongest metric of basing this claim on: number of trophies won.
Click to expand...

I don't think basing pay on number of trophies won is a good idea at all. What if, in a hypothetical scenario, practically no one watched the women's team? It would make very little sense to pay them more than men, who in this hypothetical scenario got several times more viewers than women.
 
M

marrec

Banned
Nesotenso said:
you are only using revenues from a WC year to back up your point? A lot of that revenue is because of domestic friendlies which the women play more in a year.

if anyone actually follows the sport, claiming that US women's soccer is more popular than the men's game is just asinine.
Click to expand...

My intention wasn't to argue that over the long term US Women's soccer is more watched or popular in America (unless you live in a specific market, like Pittsburgh, where it is) but they're clearly more popular at this moment (especially with the Olympics coming up), bring in more revenue, and are more accomplished on the field. Their pay obviously needs to increase.
 
A

arts&crafts

Member
tkscz said:
Also Allison Pill wasn't even in the movie as long as Brad Pitt was, nor got as many lines or screen time. I still don't understand why she felt she deserved the same amount of money he got.
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Just to be clear I chose 2 random actors/actresses, i dont know if they ever were in a movie together I just chose an "a-list male" and a "b-list female"
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Can I just ask that people actually back up their claims that there is no discrimination with actual numbers rather than simplistic swapping of ideals. This is more complicated than "They bring in less so they should make less".

For example women don't get paid for losses or ties where as men do. I'm pretty sure they still sell tickets in games they lose.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Matt_ said:
They've got a point. It might be a different argument for league games but at an international team level where the women are clearly exceeding the men in their relevant competitions there is no excuse not to have pay parity
Click to expand...
They're not even asking for parity but better pay. It seems demonstrably lower than the men's.
 
N

Nesotenso

Member
VendettaRed07 said:
Can I just ask that people actually back up their claims that there is no discrimination with actual numbers rather than simplistic swapping of ideals. This is more complicated than "They bring in less so they should make less".

For example women don't get paid for losses or ties where as men do. I'm pretty sure they still sell tickets in games they lose.
Click to expand...

the women should be compensated more, no question about that.

But the men are paid for individual matches. The women are more like salaried employees for US soccer. A part of the reason is because of club pay. I guess if you are not a superstar on the men's side then you would earn very little even with national team appearances.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
King_Moc said:
They bring in more money, they should get more money. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

It isn't if the pay gap still isn't proportional to what they earn in comparison. I'm pretty sure Alex Morgan sells more jerseys than Brad Guzan or whoever. Is she compensated for that? Can we get actual numbers here?
 
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