DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If you're about facts, then you'd factually notice a clear pattern here with that slow box parity clause causing issues.
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Forza Motorsport will release without Spectator Mode, Racing with A.I. in Featured Multiplayer and Splitscreen
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
With one game.
What caused GT7 to have a completely broken side by side splitscreen option? What caused it to be absent from nearly all PC sim racers including FM7?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I'm sure that's temporary, though.
Xbox will soon send a team to Xbox, consisting of Xbox devs, to help them make split screen work on Xbox.
I can’t draw a ‘pattern’ with one data point, unfortunately. We know it’s behind the issues with BG3. Splitscreen isn’t the only feature planned for implementation post launch, and it’s well established that it’s a niche feature for the genre.
Im no fan of the Series S power levels and memory setup, and I’ve expressed that in the past and multiple times in this thread. It was a mistake to go with that setup
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What do you mean, one game?
Did you miss all those BG3 threads recently?
And of course, SonyToo. And PC sim racers. I'm going off the developers comments, they said it was a staple mode, not I.
BG3 is the one game he’s citing that is confirmed to be restricted by the Series S.
Isn’t that obvious?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And it gave 343 trouble with Halo Infinite. There are many more examples.
With BG3, that impacts the game design since it's always been how their games work with a seamless drop in and drop out without restarting a play session.
Game design features having issues due to that parity clause with the POS box for 2023 going forward. It starts with this, what other design features in future games may need to be chopped due to that parity low and slow memory footprint?
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foamdino
Member
It takes two is one of the greatest game experiences I've ever had - if you haven't played it yet and you have it on GamePass or PS++, grab a family member/friend/someone off the street and play it. It is awesome.What was that game with a supposedly "dead feature" that won GotY again at the VGAs (and many outlets) where even people on here raved about playing it with their significant others and children?
"Dead Feature™"
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed. Played it long before the GotY hype and it caught me by surprise. Charming, funny, and fun gameplay throughout. Looking forward to their next project, and hopefully concessions aren't made to their vision due to the S.
The bottleneck for Halo Infinite was Xbox One.
Any more examples?
The Medium had a splitscreen experience months after launch on Series S. I believe Dirt 5 has splitscreen on XSS too.
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foamdino
Member
It constantly surprises beyond the platforming/puzzles - the addition of an ARPG level had my boy and I chortling, then there's the handglider, the boats etc etc., super creative game.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The Medium is not two different controller input instances. It's a mirror instance on the memory footprint.
And yes, more MS parity for the slow boxes with Halo. Why didn't they just have that feature for next gen? EA has no issues having specific animations and features in Madden for next gen.
I think there is more to it with Halo. Game launched in a practical early access state even coming in a year later.
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That’s certainly not how digital foundry characterized how demanding the game was.
If the Madden situation is anything like what they did with FIFA, both versions are separate SKUs and no cross play.
Certainly not the tack MS took with Halo Infinite.
It was cross-gen with the 1.2TF xbox one + Jaguar CPU. That’s the true issue.
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TheShocker
Member
Does GT7 or other similar style games have those features? Not a console war question. I own GT7 and legit don’t know as I only play single player races. Or even other FM games for that matter? Always played those solo.
Insane Metal
Member
Damn the latest footage looks really bad for a Forza game
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
GT7 has split-screen, local co-op.
the sooner xbox fanboyz snapped out of this "s is fine" brainwash, and pressure microsoft to do something about it,
the better they'll be helping their corporate overlords. and gaming community at large.
otherwise get ready to being bent into a pretzel trying to justify concessions for the next 5 years and beyond.
(thats also while the other party has introduced a pro console to the mix, mind you)
the better they'll be helping their corporate overlords. and gaming community at large.
otherwise get ready to being bent into a pretzel trying to justify concessions for the next 5 years and beyond.
(thats also while the other party has introduced a pro console to the mix, mind you)
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Digital Foundry says a lot of things.
There is absolutely zero reasons why the XB1 would hold back splitscreen or coop for the next gen versions of Halo. None. In fact, it would be a selling point to upgrade. So either they wanted a stupid parity clause for a local feature (makes no sense) or an excuse for a game that had to be delayed a year and came in hot.
The pattern is the S, which is why the issues persist. Which is also why due to the low footprint, it couldn't run last gen games enhanced, despite it's better CPU/GPU/IO. It's the low and slow memory.
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Fox Mulder
Member
GT7 split screen has been busted to where the second player has every driving assist turned on and is slower. It hasn’t been fixed since launch, but no one notices because no one cares about this feature or even uses it.
MS is too scared to just come out and say no one plays split screen or that it’s not a focus in 2023 game development.
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reinking
Gold Member
So they would rather let speculation run wild that it is the Series S causing the issues? That doesn't make sense to me.
transformer
Member
GT7 “has” split screen just like GT sport has a fished out single player mode…
They had a showcase yesterday where they detailed all the transformative improvements coming to Forza Motorsport multiplayer. As an aside, they mentioned a niche feature was deprioritized and would come after launch.
I’m not sure they expected platform warriors to take only the omission and run with it vs discussion and feedback on the meat of the presentation, the multiplayer modes.
It also wouldn’t make sense to draw attention to the Series S by bringing that up.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I love my series s that I got from my daughter. I sometimes blast on it and it always impresses me.
Saying that, it's pretty obvious that it's proving to be an extra headache for developers because of the ram set up. Everything else seems perfectly tuned for what it was going for. I think they just needed that 12gb and extra speed for it to not be a headache for devs. I really like the box but I also want devs to have the easiest time with a console so they can draw the most out of it and spend more time on the vision they have.
I think MS should just drop the parity clause for certain game modes like split screen. If it makes sense.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
I wonder how many people would have noticed if they never mentioned no split screen.
Why do they leave that bloody ideal racing line on when showing the game.
Far to early to properly judge graphics yet, but the rain does look at bit overdone in that video but I did like how you can see rain coming off each tire and the lights off the car behind are shining off the car in front.
Why do they leave that bloody ideal racing line on when showing the game.
Far to early to properly judge graphics yet, but the rain does look at bit overdone in that video but I did like how you can see rain coming off each tire and the lights off the car behind are shining off the car in front.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
Why can’t Xbox release a game without having to tell us things that won’t be there at launch? Pathetic.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Not that I want sitting on my couch next to me. I play online with my friends like most people.
Topher
Gold Member
That isn't a "big leap" at all.
I hope you are right and they figure out a way to do it on XSS though. Then they can pass that trick along to other developers as well.
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DaGwaphics
Member
I've had a lot of fun in different games playing local coop, I won't knock the experience if the game is right for it, even if I doubt it is used much. But playing on half your screen is hardly an ideal experience, especially the horizontal splits. Also, it isn't always going to be easy to go splitscreen even on the XSX, those that don't realize that obviously weren't paying attention to those Cerny quotes they often talk about.
Gone are the days where the whole level is easily loaded into RAM, now you might have situations where the memory is getting reloaded as you turn your character, but what happens when the other coop player doesn't turn around. LOL That's why they talked about the graphical fidelity in the same breath, any kind of RT features are probably going to be difficult to do splitscreen unless the players are rubber-banded together in some way to make sure they always occupy the same area.
Topher
Gold Member
Yeah.....I keep forgetting Halo Infinite was cross gen. Thanks for the reminder. Still don't think it is a leap at all for Forza's issues to be about XSS though.
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
Ah, that makes sense. So there’s a new mode in MP that omits features from other MP modes in the game. If this is legit, it’s certainly not as horrific as the thread is indicating. Thanks for being a voice of reason among the warriors ITT.
Lack of split screen still sucks though. GT and GT2 were two of my most played PSone games and split screen was the best part, tweaking cars and racing others. Of course, back then online play didn’t exist and I was in a house with numerous roommates. Now I’m an adult and can just play those same friends online
Still, some use it. Personally though I’m ok with them focusing on other areas. I’d rather they take time and make things right than have a split screen like GT7
Game's launching with 500+ cars, tons of tracks and much improved multiplayer, and you're babbling about 'subpar content'.
Played it yet? Seen any reviews?
They did say in the video that the decisions on Spectator mode and AI in the new mode were from a design point of view, not technical. For example, for the Spectator mode omission, the devs said
and for the AI drivers in the Featured Multiplayer mode they said:
The one that obviously was based on technical challenges is the split screen feature. As the devs said:
And frankly, it seems to be the right call, since it's a niche feature that's no longer a standard in Sim racers...and even racers in general.
It's certainly a possibility. I won't dispute that.
phant0m
Member
Microsoft first party studios and releasing incomplete games after half a decade, name a more dynamic duo
i mean jfc, Hellblade II was teased before XSX/S and we're now finally getting it 4 years later
systemr123
Member
“After launch” is MS code word speak for: never. We’ve seen it with Halo, with Redfall, with Forza soon, and with other games I probably forget. Be it no 60fps, splitscreen or other functions.
Only way nowadays you can trust MS releases is to wait until they patch in everything they promised or just not buy it. Their reputation and trust is down the drain and the sales reflect that.
They delivered on Forge and Campaign co-op as promised with Halo. Redfall was just released months ago, so...
Eh, I don't think anyone here was under the illusion you were planning to buy Forza Motorsport anyway.
DaGwaphics
Member
Hey, but that's different.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
SonyToo? You are surmising that the issue with split screen is the Series S, even though this hasn't been stated. And to bring up evidence from ecosystems that don't have a Series S you have decided is out of bounds, thus making the entire discussion dependant purely on your opinion. I like to give posters the benefit of the doubt but you are obvioulsy discussing this in bad faith.
systemr123
Member
They delivered on Forge and Campaign co-op as promised with Halo. Redfall was just released months ago, so...
Eh, I don't think anyone here was under the illusion you were planning to buy Forza Motorsport anyway.
Oh really? Where is split screen on Halo? And yes I already said I won’t buy Forza because I have gamepass. And yes Redfall still doesn’t have any promised missing release features since release lol. It doesn’t make anything I said a lie though. But sure, you do you. It’s hard to see the truth of what MS is doing if you feel you have to defend them to the death, and beyond.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I don't understand why people feel the need to defend their plastic box of choice at all costs and both camps have themOh really? Where is split screen on Halo? And yes I already said I won’t buy Forza because I have gamepass. And yes Redfall still doesn’t have any promised missing release features since release lol. It doesn’t make anything I said a lie though. But sure, you do you. It’s hard to see the truth of what MS is doing if you feel you have to defend them to the death, and beyond.
I mean even if they patch Redfall that game is dead, it had its chance
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
So basically you're validating the exact concerns Sony expressed in MS buying ABK, i.e MS leveraging ownership to "hold back" those games on Sony platforms since Xbox systems may not support those features or support them as well. An actual concern, that regulators pretended to care about before suddenly dropping those concerns because full foreclosure of COD (and things pertaining to it, such as features) on PlayStation consoles is 100% okay in their books.
You're suggesting that customers will essentially get a worst version of COD under MS's ownership, since MS would deliberately withhold ABK from making a version pushing PS5 Pro hardware simply because Microsoft don't have their own mid-gen refresh (unless you believe the Series X is their mid-gen refresh). Bro....
It's not just that GT7 has split-screen (even if the implementation could be better); it's that it's in the same genre and has it, while selling at the same price. And, previous Forza games provided it, sold at a lower price, at launch.
So again, you are paying more for less, when it comes to modes/features.
It hasn't happened yet so I can't do it. But you will certainly see it on Twitter, and other forums for certain.
At that point a Series S makes no sense. Why make two boxes where the only difference is 4 GB of RAM and maybe having 1/2 the GPU power? It still creates a lopsided development environment for devs.
The only way a Series S would've made sense is if it had a portable form factor, or was the proposed cancelled steaming system. There was never a need for two stationary Xbox home consoles targeting native play at different resolutions. The idea was bound to present problems from the get-go.
I guess the problem with dropping the parity clause is, they would be required to have different game SKUs for Series S and Series X, the former with games priced lower. That seems like a big change from how their system currently is, and would take time.
So because other racers aren't prioritizing split-screen, Forza shouldn't either?
See, this is exactly what I mean when I say Microsoft has a problem with industry-leading, standard-setting games. This new Forza is on a whole new engine. This could've been Turn 10's chance to show others how to do split-screen the right way, and make others step their game up for the feature for their own racers. Instead it's just going to play meekly along, and that says a lot for a sim racer from a platform holder flushed with cash.
Microsoft's studios have been very bad at making those industry-leading type of games and not stepping up to bat to do something like legit great split-screen in the new Forza is just kind of another example of this. Especially, again, considering this game is on a whole new engine. And I know you're going to say: "But what about Sony!?". Well, they've already been doing those industry-leading, standard-setting games for decades now. Gran Turismo basically set the formula for sim racers that's been in place 'till this day.
Forza's always played second-fiddle to Gran Turismo in this regard; this could've been a chance to finally take the crown for at least one time and make the competition with Polyphony more fierce, so Gran Turismo 8 could be that much better. But that doesn't seem like it's happening. Everyone wants to talk about "competition" when it comes to the consoles and think PS needs Xbox and vice-versa, but when it comes to the actual games, suddenly "competition" stops coming up. I mean look at all the devs trying to downplay Baldur's Gate 3 right now, that it's "setting expectations too high".
Just sounds like devs who are scared to step up and compete IMHO.
DaGwaphics
Member
LOL, my post was more of a joke about the PS5 Pro ending MS (apparently at their own hand with a killer port of CoD). But choosing not to include feature XY or Z in a game (doesn't appear in any version) was never a consideration of any competition authority. Thier issue was that MS could add features to their own release that didn't appear in others (which they didn't even really care about either).
If Xbox had some kind of crazy new RT feature, Sony isn't in the wrong for not adding that feature to The Show when it wasn't part of their design. Same for all the games that don't use the touchpad on PS, etc. Choosing to never build a feature into a game isn't disadvantaging any platform. There are different ways to use the refresh systems, some games did it great others were lazy with it. MS might really go all out on all PS ports (sucking up for future acquisitions), but devs being lazy with the refresh hardware will still happen even if it is from other third-parties.
Or, maybe, they looked at what features made the most sense in 2023 and splitscreen was low on the list, like a lot of the other modern racers. At this point it's obvious that they could have decided to only include one shift key in the onscreen keyboard and you would write novels about how the entire game is trash because they didn't include a shift key on both sides.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well see, this starts to create muddy definitions as far as I'm concerned. There's no scenario where if MS made a mid-gen refresh, they'd have a RT feature that PS5 Pro likely wouldn't have an equivalent to. Since the whole point of mid-gen refreshes are to provide better visuals and framerates to games, there's nothing outside of SSD's scope for MLB that would suddenly make RT a no-go for the Pro consoles. It's not like adding RT requires a massive scale of the game's scope; we know this already because there are games out today with modes that have RT and modes without, but the actual game plays exactly the same in both modes (gameplay loop, game mechanics, AI, controls etc.).
Developers disadvantage themselves when they skimp on expected features for a game when competing software on the same platform (or other platforms that serve similar purpose) have those feature, at the same or lower price. It can hurt uptick of that game and miss a chance for that game to steal the conversation, as it were. That's how I look at it, anyway.
Or, maybe, they looked at what features made the most sense in 2023 and splitscreen was low on the list, like a lot of the other modern racers. At this point it's obvious that they could have decided to only include one shift key in the onscreen keyboard and you would write novels about how the entire game is trash because they didn't include a shift key on both sides.
Nah it would take the keyboard not having a numpad for me to go that far. Especially on laptop, legit cannot see how people get by without a numpad
DaGwaphics
Member
@
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
, obviously the "crazy new RT feature" was a stand in for any possible capability in one system not supported to the same extent in another. It's something so miraculous we can't even describe it yet.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
, obviously the "crazy new RT feature" was a stand in for any possible capability in one system not supported to the same extent in another. It's something so miraculous we can't even describe it yet.I see. You’re craftily not mentioning that GT7 sold at the same price, despite shipping with fewer cars and tracks and having no ‘play anywhere’ support.
There’s no logic or sense in demanding 1:1 mode or content parity in different games in the same genre, but you’re certainly not a stranger to making nonsensical arguments.
Previous Forza games were also lacking some of the new content and features in Forza Motorsport so...
It makes perfect sense to de-prioritize a niche feature that's no longer standard in the genre.
They've actually come out to say split screen is challenging because they've pushed fidelity and systems higher than before. Seems like an opposite situation to 'complacency' that you allege.
This reads like a fever dream of yours, since Forza has been the critically superior racer for over a decade now.
None of this 'competition' talk makes sense, since there's precisely zero overlap between Forza (xbox, PC) and GT (playstation) in terms of release platforms. Is everything OK with you?
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