Excess
Member
>sharp elbows, wouldn't fuck
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hellblade II: Senua's Saga - New Trailer | The Game Awards 2021
- Thread starter KyoZz
- Start date
Oddvintagechap
Member
I don't like this practice of taking screenshots of video footage from services like YouTube and comparing it to in-game screenshots. One is inherently shittier.
But don't think it's going to stop cause of warring shit and all that.
GhostOfTsu
Banned
You're right but what I don't understand is the extreme hype from a fanbase that was mocking these games just last month when FH5 came out (maybe the car needs to be sad to be nominated lol lol lol) and the endless posts saying "not enough forced walking in the forest I guess?" for years.
Suddenly it's "Holy shit! This forced walking simulator is so cinematic!!"
Can you explain this somersault?
Self_Destructive
Member
SenjutsuSage
Banned
They're not fighting. One of them won long ago. The dumber of the two was more ruthless.
Oddvintagechap
Member
I was helping the homie post his screenshots. Homie just had links.
You are commenting like a fanbase is uniform in their comments/views. It clearly isn't as its a group of people and there are clearly hypocrisy on both sides of the console war.
I wasn't calling you out but the general trend on twitter of this practice.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Insufferable in the sense you're just one of several in a chorus pulling nitpicks out of the ass with little if any constructive criticism, while also being confused to the fact the first trailer was in-engine and in-engine graphics by their nature, always look a notch better than graphics running in real-time.
The way some of you are talking though make it sound like the game dropped to 360-levels of graphics downgrades; the hyperbolic language does nothing but put salt in the air IMHO.
Why pay when they're willing to be dense at no extra cost? Granted it's not all PS fans and in some cases it's probably none of them, heck it could also be Xbox, Nintendo, PC people too.
I don't think that matters so much as the fact there's a metric shitton of bad, stupid takes and given most of the show didn't have much going on some folks are taking out that anger on HB II, the way a kid kicks their toys when their parents scold them.
It's just a general negative, dismissive, pessimistic take on things that just isn't good energy. People were doing the same thing with Forbidden West and it got very tiring there. I didn't get into gaming to hear a bunch of negative nancies bitch and whine over nitpicks for a game that's a year out and clearly in development still. There are folks acting like they (Ninja Theory) had to show the whole nine...for a game still a year out at earliest.
Reserve that shit for when the game goes gold and is actually available. At the very least if you're going to have some criticisms to levy try and be constructive and sensible but only
kbear
has actually managed to do that.I mean, it's literally a giant Nephilim-like creature getting hit with weak spears, I'd expect it to not be that phased. Yeah, I know, "physics", but also, Newton's third law. Did those spears look anywhere near as big as that Nephilim-like creature? No.
TBH looking at it side-by-side they're almost indistinguishable. Yes, there is a difference in lighting but presence of a light effect in one and lack of it in the other shouldn't be used to shout downgrade. There's a vein detail in her forehead in the trailer shot not in the game shot, but her emotive state is clearly different between the two which would also mean her facial muscles are reacting differently. No need to tense the muscles up if you aren't angry, for example, so that forehead vein wouldn't show through. Basically, just like real life.
Ear model details are the same on both, there's a bit of a "puffiness" on her skin in the trailer shot still there (tho not as pronounced, due to lighting differences) in the new shot, the face paint is obviously different but her nose model is the same, cheekbone definition appears the same, chin is the same. There's actually more detail in the clothing around her neck and shoulders in the new trailer versus the 2019 one, as well.
Just goes to show the majority of people arguing there's been big downgrades in the character models are outright bullshitting, they can't even specify on a technical level how. They may pull up some screenshot to try and compare but they can't specify if the shot was from a still frame or where some motion occurred, can't explain on a technical level if model geometry is simpler and how, if facial details are simpler and how, etc. It's laughable.
Man you guys aren't even trying anymore. Yes, further downgrades. I'm awaiting dem 360-tier graphics, myself. That's when we'll know for sure the game is complete.
Do you just turn your brain off when it's time to pick up that sword and carry out the good fight? Because damn....
Last edited:
literally incredible
Tripolygon
Banned
Again, I did not nitpick anything. I shared some screenshots and gave my opinion that the new trailer looks good but the previous trailer looks better. I am well aware the previous trailer was in-engine render hence I called it CG. It still looks better. I really don't understand what i said that was hard to understand or was insufferable.
Who are some of you and where was I hyperbolic?
in-engine if you know what they are 99% look better than in real-time gameplay...is like photo mode vs gameplay. If you think that this mean "downgrade", well then is your ignorance talking and or your wrong expectation. Game is the best next gen graphics til now. Probably Naughty dog will beat them later
Last edited:
supernova8
Banned
I think it would be disingenuous to claim there wasn't a downgrade (compared to the in-engine stuff) and I don't think you need to be technically-minded to look at the overall image and notice things don't look as detailed/crisp/accurate/realistic as the in-game stuff. Even so, as I mentioned, it's not a big downgrade and thus nothing to get hung up about.
Plus, I agree that people almost claiming it looks last-gen (or worse) are either being hyperbolic or are experiencing some sort of cognitive/memory bias where their memory tells them a game looked better at the time than it really did. I definitely get it when I go back and play old games. My first reaction is like "wow this game looks way rougher than I remember....". That's why it's important for people to at least go watch a Youtube video of the game (running as it was at the time on the target device, not enhanced via emulation) before making such comparisons.
Last edited:
Gravemind
Member
So many people kidding themselves in this thread. Wow, talk about salt.
I guess when you have so much time and effort invested in warring, you'll really say anything to try and cope.
That is the best looking next gen game we've seen so far, bar none. Stop making yourselves look stupid.
I guess when you have so much time and effort invested in warring, you'll really say anything to try and cope.
That is the best looking next gen game we've seen so far, bar none. Stop making yourselves look stupid.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
You're right but what I don't understand is the extreme hype from a fanbase that was mocking these games just last month when FH5 came out (maybe the car needs to be sad to be nominated lol lol lol) and the endless posts saying "not enough forced walking in the forest I guess?" for years.
Suddenly it's "Holy shit! This forced walking simulator is so cinematic!!"
Can you explain this somersault?
You're acting as if the people who made fun of PlayStation 1P games calling them walking simulators represented the entire Xbox community: they didn't. They never did, and never will. You're also acting like all Xbox gamers are solely Xbox gamers (or vice-versa with PlayStation ones); that isn't the case.
So you've already made two massive, glaring mistakes in the first paragraph alone due to bad assumptions and on top of that are assuming the only people excited by what was shown are Xbox fanboys doing it to hype into some console war nonsense? Maybe some of us are just genuinely impressed by how the game looks. I mean, hell, when I see this:
I'm just extremely impressed because I enjoy great cinematography in films and this gives me vibes of dystopian Russian & Eastern European post-apocalyptic sci-fi/fantasy films. Ever heard of On a Silver Globe?
It's stull like that the new Hellblade II gameplay gave me vibes of. That's why I'm so impressed.
Honestly, this stuff is so beyond stupid console wars for me, but apparently not for most people, sadly.
supernova8
I didn't say there wasn't a downgrade. I said it is virtually indistinguishable, which it is. The differences overall are small, there are people saying it's not even in the same ballpark and yet they can't justify that opinion on any technical level.And yes, I think you do need to be able to justify opinions on the matter of game visuals not just by what you feel but, given the nature of discussion ITT, on technical understanding too, based on observations of the material. If I see two cuts of a movie and say Cut B looks objectively worst than Cut A, but can't explain what a shot-reverse-shot is, then why hold my opinion with that much weight?
Yeah, I'd be justified to voice it, but that's about it. Some people are literally just grabbing screencaps but don't seem to even taken considerations like different lighting conditions, different weather conditions (seems like it was more rainy in the new footage or as if it had just rained a bit more recently), different emotional states of characters (meaning facial motions and subtle body muscle fibers will act a bit differently), camera angles etc. into consideration.
Last edited:
Last edited:
SSfox
Member
Watching this again, i can say i appreciate it more, i can feel the soul of the game unlike that Forspoken game that i fail to feel anything from that game even after all those trailers, and it's coming from a SE fan. Ninja Theory really never disappoint in that area since Heavenly Sword (now mentioning it i miss this game lol), big fail on Sony for not acquiring NT, MS has done great job by acquiring the studio.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
No need to war people. This game is the best looking game shown so far. Marrix looks better but it’s just a tech demo.
Let’s hope they do better with gameplay. This was underwhelming. Ninja theory used to have great combat. I don’t know what the hell they were trying to do here but this was not a good gameplay demonstration. Visually spectacular yes, but come on you can’t have something that feels so on rails.
Lastly and again, stop warring. Be happy that at least one dev is willing to make a true next Gen only game while every one else is busy wasting our time making cross gen shit. Matrix and this game have shown just what these consoles are capable of and how gamers have had an entire year wasted with cross gen trash being shoved down our throat with another year to go. We need to stick together. Green rats, blue bats, purple cats. Fuck the suits. Let’s demand Every game needs to look this good.
Let’s hope they do better with gameplay. This was underwhelming. Ninja theory used to have great combat. I don’t know what the hell they were trying to do here but this was not a good gameplay demonstration. Visually spectacular yes, but come on you can’t have something that feels so on rails.
Lastly and again, stop warring. Be happy that at least one dev is willing to make a true next Gen only game while every one else is busy wasting our time making cross gen shit. Matrix and this game have shown just what these consoles are capable of and how gamers have had an entire year wasted with cross gen trash being shoved down our throat with another year to go. We need to stick together. Green rats, blue bats, purple cats. Fuck the suits. Let’s demand Every game needs to look this good.
Last edited:
El Pistolero
Banned
You realize that Deathloop is still a temporary PS exclusive?
Last edited:
Tripolygon
Banned
So, on one hand, you are saying 99% of the time in-engine cutscenes look better than in real-time which is what I'm saying "the previous in-engine trailer looks better than this new one which still looks good".
How am I ignorant for pointing that out? And what wrong expectations do you think I have? And what has Naughty dog to do with this?
Last edited:
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
In-engine != CG. Those are still two different things. CG trailers use pre-rendered 3D graphics made on rendering farms, like how Pixar films are made.
In-engine use the actual game's graphics engine, maybe with a cluster of systems running it (but usually not, to my knowledge), and disable real-time game logic to utilize highest level of LOD assets for the character models and such.
Compared to some of the insanity ITT I wouldn't call you insufferable, I take that part back. But the general "downgrade" talk or should I say the tone surrounding it, again coming mainly from other folks, is pretty insufferable. I don't mean it in a literal sense, obviously.
Gameplaylover
Member
Just wow.
because there isn't any downgrade. You are aiming for the obvious and what everyone should have expected instead you are creating a false alarmism as if the game is somehow getting worse.
This is the first gameplay they show of the game (although in order not to spoil too much, NT probably chose an initial part of the game that is very cinematic), so i don't get as you can talk about a noticeable downgrade. I repeat it is logical that in-game or in-engine wasn't and never was meaning ... gameplay.That said, whatever they have presented .... what we have seen remains the best graphics on any console to date.
Last edited:
Tripolygon
Banned
You don't need to explain what computer graphics terms are to me I am well aware. There was a whole pedantic debate about what CGI means on BY3D which spawned a thread. I can use it interchangeably if I feel like it and any person would understand to mean it was not realtime.
Again there was no downgrade talk in my post. I said the new trailer looks good but the older one looks better. You quoted me to say I was insufferable.
Last edited:
penguininthesun
Neo Member
Sad to see so much negativity here. This game looks cool as hell! I’m so excited for Xbox owners, and this (and the new Halo) has helped place the Series X firmly on my wishlist.
Tripolygon
Banned
Never said there was. Never said the game was getting worse. I said the game looked good.
All that can be true but the first trailer in my opinion looks better than this trailer.
Robb
Gold Member
Great trailer and the game looks stunning! I played the first game fairly recently and it definitely looks like this could be gameplay to me, which is super exciting!
Though I did expect it to look and sound amazing, the first game still looks fantastic. The visuals and sound design were always what I was the least worried about. Hoping we’ll get some more varied puzzles and improved combat as well.
Can’t wait to play this!
Though I did expect it to look and sound amazing, the first game still looks fantastic. The visuals and sound design were always what I was the least worried about. Hoping we’ll get some more varied puzzles and improved combat as well.
Can’t wait to play this!
Gameplaylover
Member
You know why: It's not on Playstation
mortal
Gold Member
How am hating? I enjoyed the first game and praised the visuals of this very trailer.
It's evident the first trailer's models were higher poly with more detail in general.
You can literally compare them side by side. I don't think that is unreasonable.
Team Andromeda
Member
Looks utterly amazing and like I said for ages, MS answer to GOW. In terms of amazing visuals with a story
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Things that stand out.
- Smoke + fire quality - I have not seen better in a video game, the way the smoke bellows looks more realistic then seen before
- Environment detail - looks like Quixel megascans, high geometric detail on the large rocks, every pebble is round and protruding out the ground with its own geometry
- Lighting - the way the fire torches have multiple bounces of light looks great, combined with the indirect light from outside the cave gives a very atmospheric looks when reacting to the fog
- Clothing physics - Sena's clothing and ships sails all blow realistically in the wind.
- Detailed NPCs, they all look beautifuly lit
Bkdk
Member
DIdn't they simply say it will be more like an interactive movie, with some gameplay blended it only? MS could show so many games and helllade is my most uninterested one. This trailer seems like attack on titan on slow mode with some shades and shadows. Main character looks ugly, it's from ninja theorey so yeah, that is certainly expected. I'll never understand why MS would acquire ninja theorey, the money should be spent on stalker 2 team and not them, a big waste of all those money and support for technical side of things.
Last edited:
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Holy fuck, this looks ridiculous. Best looking game I’ve ever seen.
I completed the first game last year and really enjoyed it for what it was. Wouldn’t surprise me if this ends up being a solid 5 to 6 hour interactive movie again.
I completed the first game last year and really enjoyed it for what it was. Wouldn’t surprise me if this ends up being a solid 5 to 6 hour interactive movie again.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
No it's actually a bad idea to use them interchangeably, because they refer to very specific things. CGI isn't even rendered in the same way video game 3D graphics are; if it came across as if I was being patronizing that wasn't the point, but if people are going to use terms like in-engine and CG interchangeably then at some point the idea might kick up to to explain what those terms actually pertain to.
Because even if in both cases they aren't real-time, the former isn't even using the game's engine and uses NURBS for the rendering while the latter at least uses the game engine, runs on a singular hardware target, and uses in-game assets (at very high LODs but still). Also yeah, you didn't explicitly say there was a downgrade, but given the interchangeable use of CGI and in-engine, combined with all the other people who ARE basically saying downgrade explicitly (and vast majority not explaining how in any objectively measurable way), just anyone saying the 2019 trailer looked better and only doing as much as posting screen shot comparisons (and seemingly not understanding the context in the differences of the screenshots themselves), well that sounds a lot like they're implying they want to mean downgrade.
And again it's not even saying there's a downgrade that's the problem, it's people either being very exaggerated with it, or thinking they can just post some screenshots and call it a day, or come up with claims like "janky running animations" (what, are they expecting someone on fire to run like a normal person not on fire would? Are they trying to imply Senua's run is bad? She's jogging, it's not a full run, it's raining so the ground's going to be less conductive for a faster, sturdier run etc.) that are just pulled from their ass.
Things that stand out.
- Smoke + fire quality - I have not seen better in a video game, the way the smoke bellows looks more realistic then seen before
No wait, you see didn't you hear? The flames burn out too quickly, that's been a hot take so far!
- Environment detail - looks like Quixel megascans, high geometric detail on the large rocks, every pebble is round and protruding out the ground with its own geometry
No wait, you see didn't you hear? That Nephilim dude is downgraded from the one in the 2019 trailer who was a completely different model in the first place, that's been a hot take so far!
- Lighting - the way the fire torches have multiple bounces of light looks great, combined with the indirect light from outside the cave gives a very atmospheric looks when reacting to the fog
- Clothing physics - Sena's clothing and ships sails all blow realistically in the wind.
No wait, you see didn't you hear? The running animations are janky, that's been a hot take so far!
- Detailed NPCs, they all look beautifuly lit
No wait, you see didn't you hear? The character models have been downgraded big-time even tho it's raining in the new trailer so naturally water hitting the skin will soften certain facial details compared to when the skin is dry, that's been a hot take so far!
Hopefully it's obvious I'm being sarcastic and poking fun at some of the worst takes so far.
Last edited:
abacab driver
Banned
I made a thread giving Ninja Theory their flowers (for what they've achieved with Hellblade 2) and haters came and shit it up to such a degree, the thread got closed.
The salt, the insecurity, the envy..all at an all time high with this one.
Silent Viper
Banned
Listen, if this was still multiplatform game, then people would have praised like crazy but since its now first party Xbox game, its obvious that it will now get extreme hate from PS side. So it is what it is.
They will take cropped out zoomed in low res screenshots and compare with 4k hd screens of engine tech reveal trailer compared to ingame trailer.
So no point arguing and wasting your time with these manchilds with 0 IQ
Now I hope it's an option in the game
abacab driver
Banned
If someone can make a gif of when she screams "ATTACK!" towards the end, it's pretty clear that the facial detail (even down to how her gums look) is very comparable to the announcement trailer from 2019.
If she had fresh war-paint and different lighting, it would look 90% the same easy.
EDIT: Even her face when she throws the second spear around 4:03
If she had fresh war-paint and different lighting, it would look 90% the same easy.
EDIT: Even her face when she throws the second spear around 4:03
Last edited:
JerryinSoCal
Member
That wasn't CG, Phil Spencer said "in engine" to try to make it sound like it was representative of what the game was going to look like, he wouldn't even say in engine running on Series X dev kit or anything like that so clearly it was running on a very high-end PC. Just like the engine trailer that Halo was used for these raised expectations of what the games were going to look like. I knew they wouldn't come close and they didn't but you'll still find Xbox fans who will try to trick themselves into believing that the actual games somehow look better lol. This is a decent looking game but they've blurred the picture so much with chromatic aberration and other things that it almost looks like they are trying to cover up for something.
JerryinSoCal
Member
Every single one of those 3 clips is a non-playable part of the trailer, the actual gameplay is broken up quite a bit and pretty much mostly just where she throws the spears which have no impact on the giant at all. The fire effects do look great, that's probably the most impressive part of the whole trailer IMO, the giant doesn't react to anything she does during gameplay.
...
Looks next gen to me.