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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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hemo memo

Gold Member
Its a game of vistas, and great for that.....up close nobody would use this in gaming. Look at where the Queen lives at buckingham palace for example....

f2C60sc.png

Yes that’s why they didn’t waste time and resources on that. It is called game development.
 
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husomc

Member
So much data from around the world. But when you look closer its only numbers :/


I get it. You have no normal games so you're happy about sim in which any of you will get bored after one flight. BUT COMMON it only looks good when you're high ( like in game, not IRL).

And saying that I will be on launch faster than Sony games ? Common Sony has whole generation of GOTY contender games just waiting for PS5 newcomers.
What fancy games xbox had this gen? I've only liked quantum break so far.
So maybe you're right hyping FS because you have nothing more to play from MS.
These FS2020 videos are awesome. They help me fall asleep every time without fail.
 

hemo memo

Gold Member
All I am saying is slight simulator has the best graphics for a flight simulator for vistas when at 1000 ft in the flight simulator sector.

Posters trying to say these are best game graphics is is giving us a laugh and is reaching.

I agree with you. It has the best graphics for what it is trying to do. The reality is that you will find ugly visuals in every game because devs don’t have unlimited time and budget.
 

Nickolaidas

Member
Its a game of vistas, and great for that.....up close nobody would use this in gaming. Look at where the Queen lives at buckingham palace for example....

f2C60sc.png
Gamernyc78 Gamernyc78 redeemed ... but it makes no difference anymore. :messenger_anxious:

At any rate, FS2020 makes sense to work its graphics this way. I mean, WHY use billions of polygons for buildings when they're not MEANT to be looked up close? It does what it does, and it does it effectively. When you're flying, it's like real life ... from afar. It creates the illusion of real-life graphics and it does so impressively well.

In the end, isn't that the point?
 

Nickolaidas

Member
People are still talking about a flight simulator? One of the nerdiest genres in gaming? It looks beautiful but it is as boring to me as racing games. Nexttttt
It has its charm. And many people love the idea of flying.

At any rate, MS fans claiming that FS2020 is a visual spectacle, which it is. No need for some of us to downplay it by not calling it a real 'game'. The point is the technical achievement, is it not?
 

HawarMiran

Banned
It has its charm. And many people love the idea of flying.

At any rate, MS fans claiming that FS2020 is a visual spectacle, which it is. No need for some of us to downplay it by not calling it a real 'game'. The point is the technical achievement, is it not?
yes I think it is very beautiful, but it is not my cup of tea. If I had gamepass I would surely try it out but I would never spend a penny on it
 

FeiRR

Banned

I remember Shinobi hyping up the Xbox games conference with a stellar line-up. Another insider with wrong info.

I understand all these 'Job simulator' games on PC. Train, Bus, Truck, Flight etc...
But for Xbox? Anyone think Microsoft are subconsciously telling Xbox fanboys to "Get a fucking job!?"
I heard this game is coming to consoles. I find it hilarious.

I like watching videos where people play crap games. A lot of those are sims of everything you can imagine. There's a peeing sim, a slav squat sim, a Russian drinking sim (you can drink with a bear). Fun stuff!
 

ZywyPL

Banned
And that's how smart shift works on laptops. You actually think ps5 is the same, why ? What leads you to beleive that ?

Is it because the name is the same :messenger_beaming:

where is the CUSTOM ps5 implementation which is different. OH, its in road to ps5 and explained by Cerny. This is a console APU and has custom.

Laptop is trying to save battery..... its a not a laptop FFS.

It's the exact same shit, same principal mechanism, same task, Cerny even described it on his presentation as you say, it's just the fanboys who are scared as fuck to admin the PS5 GPU won't be constantly running at 2.2GHz (which is officially listed by Sony as "variable" anyway), because that would make the gap to XBX bigger, but it is what it is, bending/denying reality on the internet doesn't work on the actual reality itself. NV has the same sort of tech, called Max-Q Dynamic Boost, and one of their slides is the best illustration how it works:

GeForce_Spring_2020_15-e1585869357635.jpg



80W GPU + 35W CPU = 115W total, but that power can be switched to 95W GPU + 20W GPU, so the same 115W total, but more powerful GPU if needed. But PS5 (and any laptop with AMD Smartshift) can also go the other way around as well, like 65W GPU + 50W CPU (for the sake of this graph), whenever the task if CPU-bound. So you can squeeze more CPU and GPU power out of the same 115W depending on the task then if the CPU and GPU were running at fixed clocks, the "Balanced Power" on the graph. it is as you say, a laptop technology, which is indeed used in laptops to save battery by providing more performance at the same power draw, and without needing beefier cooling as well, and that's also why PS5 uses it, to control the temps by operating at a fixed power draw, but providing more CPU/GPU performance than if the clocks were fixed.
 

jimbojim

Banned
Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-issues-update-flight-simulator-2020-xbox-one-release

Crazy that this cross-gen game is still the best looking and most impressive nextgen experience we have seen so far at all.

The mental gymnastics 😂 It's the best looking game so far, Period. No need for mental gymnastics.





It's a A Generational Leap In Graphical Realism according to DF. how can you still deny that? By zooming in 100000%?
Also, its not only about graphics, it's also everything around it, it's a snapshot of our ENTIRE WORLD (!!!) and includes REAL-TIME airtime traffic, so basically live planes in real life being in the game with the accurate radar data in real-time!

This is amazing and means that if one of my loved ones or best friends take a plane somewhere I can fly alongside them the entire route and see the weather they are experiencing in real-time with them. The fact the game has ADS-B data integration is amazing. I love the fact I can just fly over to any airport and see the real-time air traffic. As a prior-service US Airman, who worked exclusively with radar systems I think this alone will sell me on the game as everything else is just a gorgeous cherry on top.

And there are also amazing weather effects.


Best next-gen experience? Really? I want some interactivity with envinroments , change the things around you and plot with your decisions and actions , not just flying around and enjoy graphics from 1000ft......and that's it.

This is next-gen experience



Also, i've thought that the biggest and most recognizable cities will be more detailed than the rest. Yes, they are detailed, but.....far above the ground. Using Azure cloud for to render visuals, enhance visual fidelity, and simulate real-world data and effects is good. But somehow, Azure managed to distorts buildings, and tilt the building on another building


Ecbr4mJ.jpg
 
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I don't know what it is, but there's something off with this guy.

Yeah I can enjoy his content to some degree however sometimes he just seems like some form of undead, lizardman like ghoul. probably his eyes, they seem so tired like he's about to fall asleep or something like that.
 
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It's the exact same shit, same principal mechanism, same task, Cerny even described it on his presentation as you say, it's just the fanboys who are scared as fuck to admin the PS5 GPU won't be constantly running at 2.2GHz (which is officially listed by Sony as "variable" anyway), because that would make the gap to XBX bigger, but it is what it is, bending/denying reality on the internet doesn't work on the actual reality itself. NV has the same sort of tech, called Max-Q Dynamic Boost, and one of their slides is the best illustration how it works:
Again the same nonsense. Is it so difficult to understand that variable frequencies are not made for turbo boosts or other shit, but for efficiency and improving the overall performance of the system as a whole? Variable frequencies are necessary to ensure that the system doesn't run idle when there is no load on any of the components (CPU/GPU) and at the same time remains as flexible and efficient as possible when the load appears. In games, the machine always works in dynamics, so what is the need to fix clock speeds, if this doesn't give any advantages?
 
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DrDamn

Member
I remember Shinobi hyping up the Xbox games conference with a stellar line-up. Another insider with wrong info.

To be fair prior to the show they may simply have known that it would include Halo Infinite, Fable, Obsidian does Skyrim, Forza and more. That is, on the face of it, a pretty decent line up - stellar if you are a big Halo/Forza fan. It's just that 3 of them are 2 years off and the other didn't go down so well. :messenger_confused:
 

Razzy-

Member
I watched the video to see your comment on Singapore "not looking great", I guess you are talking about the missing bridges, right?
unfortunately I am not from Singapore therefore not certain, but I think that these bridges in the marina bay are rather new, maybe less than ten years old.
so its very possible the data used for the game does not contain them. maybe you understand than when you are rendering the entire planet,
you get the best homogenized data available that suits you.
I am pretty sure though that if you care so much for those beautiful bridges on marina bay, there will be companies that offer the data to make your wishes come true

That highway bridge is the Benjamin Sheares Bridge. Been there since 1981. The Helix bridge has been there since 2010.
Singapore is a pretty small nation and an airport hub in Asia. Was pretty disappointed that it wasn't completely filled in.
Source: I am from Singapore :lollipop_smirking:
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Random question. Anyone got any thoughts as to why Sony still haven't shown the rear panel of the PS5 at this point? Could there be another surprise we don't see coming? If so, what do you think it could be?
 
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By-mission

Member
That math can't be right. Per Nvidia, the Tegra K1 slide I posted shows PS3's GPU listed at 192 GFLOPS.

Multi-way programmable parallel floating-point shader pipelines

Independent pixel (550 MHz)/ vertex shader (500 MHz) architecture

24 parallel pixel-shader ALU pipes clocked @ 500 MHz
5 ALU operations per pipeline, per cycle
- 2 vector4
- 2 scalar / dual / co-issue and fog ALU
- 1 Texture ALU

27 floating-point operations per pipeline, per cycle

8 parallel vertex pipelines @ 500 MHz
2 ALU operations per pipeline, per cycle
- 1 vector4
- 1 scalar, dual issue

10 floating-point operations per pipeline, per cycle

Floating Point Operations:
230 Gigaflops
(500MHz x 24 Shaders x 2 ops per clock per ALU)

68.0 billion shader operations / s

(8 Vertex Shader Pipelines x 2 ALUs x 500 MHz)

24 texture filtering units (TF)
8 vertex texture addressing units (TA)
24 filtered samples per clock

Peak texel fillrate:
12.0 GigaTexels per second
(24 textures x 500 MHz)

32 unfiltered texture samples per clock
(8 TA x 4 texture samples)

8 Render Output units / pixel rendering pipelines

Peak pixel fillrate:
4.4 Gigapixel / s

Peak Z sample rate:
8.0 GigaSamples / sec
(2 Z-samples x 8 ROPs x 500 MHz

Support for PSGL (OpenGL ES 1.1 + Nvidia Cg)


(note: techpowerup says it is clocked at 500MHz but most sources say it is 550MHz)

Well, to be fair to dig up this lot of information, it was never the goal .. I was to answer the previous post "why manufacturers only choose AMD and not NVidia".

And Nvidia had to promote its Tegra ...

The following are relevant facts about the RSX ...
Little Endian
8 vertex shaders at 500Mhz
28 pixel shaders (4 redundant, 24 active) at 550Mhz
28 texture units (4 redundant, 24 active)
8 Raster Operations Pipeline units (ROPs)
 
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Dodkrake

Banned
It's the exact same shit, same principal mechanism, same task, Cerny even described it on his presentation as you say, it's just the fanboys who are scared as fuck to admin the PS5 GPU won't be constantly running at 2.2GHz (which is officially listed by Sony as "variable" anyway), because that would make the gap to XBX bigger, but it is what it is, bending/denying reality on the internet doesn't work on the actual reality itself. NV has the same sort of tech, called Max-Q Dynamic Boost, and one of their slides is the best illustration how it works:

This narrative needs to die. Nobody is arguing the Xbox is more powerful TFlops wise. What people are arguing is that Smartshift will lead to a boost in efficiency.

TFLOPS, clocks, whatever, do matter to an extent, but it's what you do with that power that ultimately matters the most. It's not like we're comparing a 1 TF machine to a 10TF machine. We're comparing close machines.

The way smartshift works is that it allows the APU (and discrete graphics, as well) to do MORE useful work. This is why the SAME APU with smartshift OFF has worse performance. That's all.

Will this make the PS5 a 12TF machine? No. But it will make the PS5 a more efficient machine.

Will this make the PS5 flick all transistors at once in real world usage? NO. But it will make the PS5 flick MORE transistors on a given task when compared to the Series X. This doesn't mean that it can do more stuff, but it means it can get closer than the numbers imply. It's still a LESS POWERFUL APU that will likely have an FX / Resolution handicap in third party games. Will the difference be huge? No.

Oh, and variable clocks... Your CPU has variable clocks. Your GPU has variable clocks. My Ryzen CPU is always flickering between 1.4 and 3.4GHz, depending on what I'm doing.
 

Lethal01

Member
Not really, there's the above plus...

Teardown
Another games event
UI
Back compatible games
Load times examples + boot time
Maybe more tech demos of unique features
Maybe more

A teardown isn't going to make me want to buy it more or less. Seeing boot time and load time is just not really something that makes me go "WE NEED TO SEE THIS WHAT'S TAKING SO LONG"

We saw games, seeing more would be fun. We know they expect backwards compatibility to work with most PS4 games.
There's just nothing they have shown that's something I think we really need to see aside from price and date.
 

Dodkrake

Banned
Again the same nonsense. Is it so difficult to understand that variable frequencies are not made for turbo boosts or other shit, but for efficiency and improving the overall performance of the system as a whole? Variable frequencies are necessary to ensure that the system doesn't run idle when there is no load on any of the components (CPU/GPU) and at the same time remains as flexible and efficient as possible when the load appears. In games, the machine always works in dynamics, so what is the need to fix clock speeds, if this doesn't give any advantages?

I'd like to add that the reason as to why Consoles have never deployed this strategy before could simply be because nobody had yet figured out a way to have a console running on variable clocks in a deterministic way so as to not impact game performance depending on external factors?
 

ZywyPL

Banned
The way smartshift works is that it allows the APU (and discrete graphics, as well) to do MORE useful work. This is why the SAME APU with smartshift OFF has worse performance. That's all.

That is exactly what I said, Smartshift will allow to squeeze more CPU/GPU performance from the same power usage, that's the sole purpose of the technology.


Oh, and variable clocks... Your CPU has variable clocks. Your GPU has variable clocks. My Ryzen CPU is always flickering between 1.4 and 3.4GHz, depending on what I'm doing.

Do they? Or maybe I disabled the Turbo Boost/Power Saving and my CPU and GPU constantly run at 4.7/2.1GHz, even when I'm just looking at the desktop wallpaper and a few icons? Not to mention that even tho PC components do have boost clocks, they are not connected with each other, that's a subtle yet huge difference.
 
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AeneaGames

Member
A teardown isn't going to make me want to buy it more or less. Seeing boot time and load time is just not really something that makes me go "WE NEED TO SEE THIS WHAT'S TAKING SO LONG"

We saw games, seeing more would be fun. We know they expect backwards compatibility to work with most PS4 games.
There's just nothing they have shown that's something I think we really need to see aside from price and date.

Honestly I don't need to watch someone open up the console and take it apart in tiny pieces. What I want is an extensive article about all the custom stuff we are still not all that clear about. More info about the Geometry Engine, what can it do, how will it help. It has to have Checkerboard rendering support due to PS4 Pro BC but did they enhance it, did they add more of these type of tricks, is that why many games looked to be 4k but secretly weren't because of some new magical technique. How is PSVR supported, do we need the breakout box and will I lose HDR again when doing so (still have the first model). We need a very long and extensive interview with Cerny for this.

Am hoping for another Wired article or somesuch....

I also would love to know all the details about the UI, how indeed does BC work, show us some BC games, talk to us and show us patches for some of the more recent PS4 games.

So much to show and tell still and I can't fricking wait to know it all!
 

geordiemp

Member
It's the exact same shit, same principal mechanism, same task, Cerny even described it on his presentation as you say, it's just the fanboys who are scared as fuck to admin the PS5 GPU won't be constantly running at 2.2GHz (which is officially listed by Sony as "variable" anyway), because that would make the gap to XBX bigger, but it is what it is, bending/denying reality on the internet doesn't work on the actual reality itself. NV has the same sort of tech, called Max-Q Dynamic Boost, and one of their slides is the best illustration how it works:

GeForce_Spring_2020_15-e1585869357635.jpg



80W GPU + 35W CPU = 115W total, but that power can be switched to 95W GPU + 20W GPU, so the same 115W total, but more powerful GPU if needed. But PS5 (and any laptop with AMD Smartshift) can also go the other way around as well, like 65W GPU + 50W CPU (for the sake of this graph), whenever the task if CPU-bound. So you can squeeze more CPU and GPU power out of the same 115W depending on the task then if the CPU and GPU were running at fixed clocks, the "Balanced Power" on the graph. it is as you say, a laptop technology, which is indeed used in laptops to save battery by providing more performance at the same power draw, and without needing beefier cooling as well, and that's also why PS5 uses it, to control the temps by operating at a fixed power draw, but providing more CPU/GPU performance than if the clocks were fixed.

Its nota laptop, its not squeezing 115 Watts, and smart shift is every 2 ms so no it is not that at all.

And its funny Xbox fans keep going on about 2.23 Ghz and it wont be sustained because ps5 has to be weak, the games shown tell us otherwise. Is there something wrong ?

In fact, why is XSX so weak in halo. Why are no games shown on XSX ? Why is loading so slow in demos ? Why cant we see fast loading in action,.....Why was there disgusting pop in on Halo ?

The rumour from b3d that MS are still working on velocity architecture ? Are MS struggling, hardware bugs so close to release, should we be concerned if it is SUSTAINED :messenger_beaming: ?


mkgmOrK.png


If you want to be concerned, try looking at XSX for a change, we can all do FUD, every Ps5 FUD from now on will be countered.
 
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I'd like to add that the reason as to why Consoles have never deployed this strategy before could simply be because nobody had yet figured out a way to have a console running on variable clocks in a deterministic way so as to not impact game performance depending on external factors?
I think the "sustained performance" paradigm has outlived its usefulness for the simple reason that it didn't match reality and didn't produce the same stable performance. If we take into account the fact that hardware is becoming more complicated technically, as well as faster and hotter, then we need to look more progressively at how to achieve greater efficiency and not sacrifice perfomance. So, Cerny did everything right. And it's very strange that XsX doesn't use such feature. Because the power limit for XsX is exactly the same limiting factor.
 

Neo Blaster

Member
Not really, they are making a PS4 version. They also want to make high end CGI (theyre a film and animation studio) so why not make the most beauitful cinematics they can using the methods they know? They're a small team, I say give em a break.

Even if the PS5 versions could run real time cinematics, the PS4 wouldn't be able to run the same fidelty scenes. So they're smart to pre-render for the highest quality, that will let the PS4 version look beautiful.
Game size delta between PS4 and PS5 would be huge, makes more sense for them to degrade quality and do them realtime.
 

FeiRR

Banned
I think the "sustained performance" paradigm has outlived its usefulness for the simple reason that it didn't match reality and didn't produce the same stable performance. If we take into account the fact that hardware is becoming more complicated technically, as well as faster and hotter, then we need to look more progressively at how to achieve greater efficiency and not sacrifice perfomance. So, Cerny did everything right. And it's very strange that XsX doesn't use such feature. Because the power limit for XsX is exactly the same limiting factor.
I think it wouldn't work well with virtualisation which Xbox heavily relies on. It's something very few people talk about but virtualisation always has performance penalties. We've heard that XSX-based server blade will be able to run 4 virtual instances of X1S. Why just 4 if that console is just 1.4 TF? Because of virtualisation and other limitations of hardware besides its TF count.
 

geordiemp

Member
I think the "sustained performance" paradigm has outlived its usefulness for the simple reason that it didn't match reality and didn't produce the same stable performance. If we take into account the fact that hardware is becoming more complicated technically, as well as faster and hotter, then we need to look more progressively at how to achieve greater efficiency and not sacrifice perfomance. So, Cerny did everything right. And it's very strange that XsX doesn't use such feature. Because the power limit for XsX is exactly the same limiting factor.

XSX is desigend as a server blade with a split IO so it can be removed for server application, hance the CPU clock and GPU clock and they cant be flexible in design as its a server blade meant to be running multiple instances at low res.

MS obviously decided to keep the same design for XSX IMO
 

Dodkrake

Banned
That is exactly what I said, Smartshift will allow to squeeze more CPU/GPU performance from the same power usage, that's the sole purpose of the technology.




Do they? Or maybe I disabled the Turbo Boost/Power Saving and my CPU and GPU constantly run at 4.7/2.1GHz, even when I'm just looking at the desktop wallpaper and a few icons? Not to mention that even tho PC components do have boost clocks, they are not connected with each other, that's a subtle yet huge difference.

Well, if you disable power saving features, yes. I think that makes sense.
 

geordiemp

Member
I think it wouldn't work well with virtualisation which Xbox heavily relies on. It's something very few people talk about but virtualisation always has performance penalties. We've heard that XSX-based server blade will be able to run 4 virtual instances of X1S. Why just 4 if that console is just 1.4 TF? Because of virtualisation and other limitations of hardware besides its TF count.

Exactly, its a server balde design in a box. Lets see how games run on it first. The virtualisation and abstraction has a performance cost indeed.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Its nota laptop, its not squeezing 115 Watts, and smart shift is every 2 ms so no it is not that at all.

Of course it's not, it's a home console, and it can be 200W, 250W, 280W, 300W, whatever, but you act like you can't compare how a 200HP V6 works with a 350HP V8, because they are oh so totally different, if you have such serious issues with abstract imagination/simple logic/common sense then I guess there's no point in any further discussion with you 🤷‍♂️ And I don't know why you are bringing XB and/or Halo into the discussion, goalpost shifting much? I guess you are exactly the type of people I mentioned in one of my previous the previews post. Actually pretty sure about it given you post history and reputation on the forum.
 

geordiemp

Member
Of course it's not, it's a home console, and it can be 200W, 250W, 280W, 300W, whatever, but you act like you can't compare how a 200HP V6 works with a 350HP V8, because they are oh so totally different, if you have such serious issues with abstract imagination/simple logic/common sense then I guess there's no point in any further discussion with you 🤷‍♂️ And I don't know why you are bringing XB and/or Halo into the discussion, goalpost shifting much? I guess you are exactly the type of people I mentioned in one of my previous the previews post. Actually pretty sure about it given you post history and reputation on the forum.

And you are FUD posting about smart shift, lol So I am FUD ing you back. We can play that game as well.

So why cant we see XSX fast loading, games running on XSX, even the new User interface did not show the console running. Why could halo not be native 4k ?
 
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These were 10/10,

Well, when i played the game, and i finished the whole thing i felt conned. Did the game look great, sure it did a masterpiece in looks. Some of the characters where FANTASTIC. Arthur Morgan is my man.

but the game itself, the combat was rubbish, the hunting, the fishing it was like a chore. There are so many things that were done right with the game but at the same time, there are so many things wrong too. a 10/10 laughable.
8/10 in my book, if its not fun when i play it, its not a masterpiece in my book no matter how good it looks.
Funnily enough the only one I can remember taking a real shot at the game for this was Angry Joe (I often disagree with him, but this is the kind of thing why I watch his reviews).

He still gave the game a 9/10.

but according to the review sites, this was second coming of Christ.
My bet is this is why the game did not GOTY in the game awards.
 

dyergram

Member
[/QUOTE]
I remember Shinobi hyping up the Xbox games conference with a stellar line-up. Another insider with wrong info.
Tbf on paper that xb show should of been good:
Fable
Halo
Forza
If you had the list before hand you would of expected the show to be good.
 
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