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Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart Day 1 Patch Adds Performance and Performance RT Modes

Not taking anything away from The Medium, but it’s just spit screen, hence why it works on HDDs. But early on when people tried to say it’s the same thing as R&C, nah bruh.

I was told that as well but it's handling multiple dimensions differently than Ratchet does. I guess the worst part about the medium is that there's a noticeable hit to performance to doing that. I'm just happy that Ratchet doesn't seem to be tanking peformance with what we've seen so far.
 
I was told that as well but it's handling multiple dimensions differently than Ratchet does. I guess the worst part about the medium is that there's a noticeable hit to performance to doing that. I'm just happy that Ratchet doesn't seem to be tanking peformance with what we've seen so far.

And why would?
Medium loads a "world" and reserves memory to load the other "world" ocasionally. The performance hurts because the console needs to render two view ports simultaneosly. Ratchet is just like any other normal game that loads an render a world each at a time, it's just that the PS5 can load another one really fast, but the game never needs to render two different views simuntaneosly like Medium.
The two cases are very different and Medium only has that bad performance because the engine and optimization isn't good enough.
 
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Rea

Member
Insomniac -- Studio of the Year.

dj khaled sip GIF by Apple Music
 
And why would?
Medium loads a "world" and reserves memory to load the other "world" ocasionally. The performance hurts because the console needs to render two view ports simultaneosly. Ratchet is just like any other normal game that loads an render a world each at a time, it's just that the PS5 can load another one really fast, but the game never needs to render two different views simuntaneosly like Medium.
The two cases are very different and Medium only has that bad performance because the engine and optimization isn't good enough.

Well Cerny did mention that I/O operations could affect performance. I'm happy that it doesn't in this game.
 

elliot5

Member
Ok, it's an incomplete game? Is that better?
No it's not an incomplete game. It's a fully operable and finishable game on the disc just at 4k30.

Spider-Man got RT60 in a post launch patch. Is it incomplete on disc because of that? No. Don't be ridiculous.

Day 1 patches are a thing because a lot of work is done polishing and finalizing things beyond the critical path necessary to "go gold". Y'all just have no idea what it's like to ship a game.
 
No it's not an incomplete game. It's a fully operable and finishable game on the disc just at 4k30.

Spider-Man got RT60 in a post launch patch. Is it incomplete on disc because of that? No. Don't be ridiculous.

Day 1 patches are a thing because a lot of work is done polishing and finalizing things beyond the critical path necessary to "go gold". Y'all just have no idea what it's like to ship a game.
Nobody is saying the game doesn't function, but it is an incomplete game because on day one those who buy the disc won't be able to play the same game than those who have an Internet connection. It's not the same to add something new 6 months or a year later, to fuming day one.

But yeah, people like you are the problem. CD Project Red said in there announcement to delay the game after going gold, that going gold means the game is in playable state enough to be printed on discs, we all know how that turned out.
 

elliot5

Member
Nobody is saying the game doesn't function, but it is an incomplete game because on day one those who buy the disc won't be able to play the same game than those who have an Internet connection. It's not the same to add something new 6 months or a year later, to fuming day one.

But yeah, people like you are the problem. CD Project Red said in there announcement to delay the game after going gold, that going gold means the game is in playable state enough to be printed on discs, we all know how that turned out.
CD Projekt are clowns and it's not some universal statement you can apply to all games and studios. You probably could play CP2077 front to back in some fashion, it's just the performance sucked ass on consoles and there were a lot of immersion breaking bugs beyond that, as well as some more severe ones.

R&C however would be totally fine on disc at the default 4k30. Demon's Souls was also a totally 'complete' game on disc with a day 1 patch. Would you rather they just... not patch the game? Delay the game a few extra months? Withhold release until some arbitrary criteria beyond certification is met?

I don't know of a single studio that wouldn't continue patching and polishing the game post release or post 'gold'. When is it okay to say "this is good enough for disc"?

Have you shipped a published game before? I have. I know what I'm talking about. Your strange entitlement and deranged claim that a game like R&C is unfinished because a day 1 patch includes an optional performance mode is hilarious.
 
Wait I’m confused does “performance rt” differ from regular performance mode? Not a huge fan of the stop when you hit the crystals but very technically impressive - just kinda jarring gameplay wise
 
Wait I’m confused does “performance rt” differ from regular performance mode? Not a huge fan of the stop when you hit the crystals but very technically impressive - just kinda jarring gameplay wise

Have you not played Miles Morales on PS5? Miles has 3 game modes (Fidelity - 4K30fps with RayTracing / Performance - 4K60fps without Ray Tracing / Performance RT - Ray tracing at 60fps with dynamic 4K [achieved through temporal injection] )

this is how rift apart is going to work :)
 

CamHostage

Member
Not taking anything away from The Medium, but it’s essentially just spit screen, hence why it works on HDDs. But early on when people tried to say it’s the same thing as R&C, nah bruh.
Okay, but let's not be so flippant that The Medium is "just split screen", as if split-screen and full-scene replacement and anything like this is "easy"...

RectangularImmediateAmethystinepython-size_restricted.gif


What R&C Rift Apart is doing could not have been done before because entirely new level data just could never load in that fast, but I actually could think of cases where The Medium's approach would be beneficial still to the developers. Like in this case above, the way the do that full-screen effect I believe is they have two concurrent versions of the game running simultaneously, one in the real world and one in the horror world, and you would even have two characters walking the path at the same time synced to the controller. Limits are severe, because you can only stress the memory and processor just half as much as a regular game (or less, realistically) in order to have both areas running in parallel to switch back to. So, that's bad. However, do it and the work (and sacrifice) is already done. The action is already synched, the two halves of the levels are built, and you found a way to squeeze it all in. So now, you can just go wild. The character is already on the road in both cases, running at the same speed as you hold the controller, and so the developer can flash back and forth whenever they want because the two sequences are perfectly aligned. Just put little flashes of color or smear to hide the transition and you flip between them in an instance. So long as there's a limiter to not let you flash when you're walking over a cliff or an enemy is in the way (which you can know because, again, the other world you're about to flash to does indeed exist and they can check that before it makes the flash happen,) you can mess with this sequence as much as you want.



Compare that to the Rivet sequence we see in this video. Rivet comes up on the rift crystal, hits it, and the whole game pauses. It's just the briefest of seconds, but the whole game has to stop because, well, there kind of is no game to play in between the moment where the one level goes away and the new level appears.

WLEgkn@facebook.gif


Or you can do the other thing Rift Apart does where Ratchet falls into a purple void of levels, where he flips up in the air and cartwheels through a big open void of rift shards until one pops up. Again, there is no game to play there because the level data has been thrown out and the game is streaming a new level in as fast as possible, so in the meantime, you get almost a "loading screen" of the rift shards. Unlike The Medium, R&C Rift Apart is not playing two games at once, and so the game does not have the stage that Ratchet will end up on loaded up until he gets there; until he arrives, the wheels have to spin idly. It also has difficulty seamlessly stitching momentum and character placement and anticipation of action on the other side because it doesn't have that other level yet loaded and it may not know what you'll be playing on until you get there.

Rift Apart does seem to have a variety of ways of stitching levels together (not all Purple Rifts are equal,) and in sequences that they call Pocket Dimensions, the transitions are totally seamless ala the Portal games (which you can do if the rift-entry and rift-exit points are specifically matched up and timed right ahead of tiem,) so hopefully there's a lot of those because those are super cool to watch. However, it looks like there are just times in the game where it has to pause and wait, even if it is an extremely brief wait.

(BTW, the new footage is kind of weird, because even when Rivet pulls a Yellow Rift to the same area, it still pauses, I'm not sure if that's just a player convenience or what the case is?)



Now, with the R&C approach, it's just plain cooler. What wasn't there is now there, and detail is at full glory because you don't need to keep the level you just left. And also, some clever tricks could be used to use the bridge between worlds as a benefit even if there's a level-change pause. (Like imagine if this whole pirate ship from the demo fell into a void in the middle of your battle, and when it lands, instead of the sea the ship and everybody aboard is sliding down that ramp about to fly over a cliff, and suddenly you're caring less about fighting the pirates and more about getting off this thing before it flings into an abyss? Same pirate level, same ground that Ratchet was standing on the whole time, but the physics changes from flat ocean to falling danger and also the objective changes too, all the while the visuals and lighting change all around to convey the change of location to a very dangerous predicament.) You can do more with this approach, and it's great that we have a console that is capable of doing this. But, there are drawbacks to not doing it the old-fashioned way (I'm actually surprised that Ratchet uses no parallel world loads, because Insomniac is a company that always keeps a good trick handy even if it has an even better trick to play,) and it will probably take even more experimentation with fast-SSD rift loading like this to achieve the same kinds of transitions in a R&C sequel as you would in a Medium sequel.
 
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CD Projekt are clowns and it's not some universal statement you can apply to all games and studios. You probably could play CP2077 front to back in some fashion, it's just the performance sucked ass on consoles and there were a lot of immersion breaking bugs beyond that, as well as some more severe ones.

R&C however would be totally fine on disc at the default 4k30. Demon's Souls was also a totally 'complete' game on disc with a day 1 patch. Would you rather they just... not patch the game? Delay the game a few extra months? Withhold release until some arbitrary criteria beyond certification is met?

I don't know of a single studio that wouldn't continue patching and polishing the game post release or post 'gold'. When is it okay to say "this is good enough for disc"?

Have you shipped a published game before? I have. I know what I'm talking about. Your strange entitlement and deranged claim that a game like R&C is unfinished because a day 1 patch includes an optional performance mode is hilarious.
Yeah, I would rather they delay the game and stop with this one day patch BS. O guess this won't be a problem in a couple years when we go all digital.
 
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Rea

Member
Yeah, I would rather they delay the game and stop with this one day patch BS. O guess this won't be a problem in a couple years when we go all digital.
Well, there's people like me who doesn't. I rather buy the game and downloads the Day one patch and play, then to Wait longer for that patch to be installed onto disc. That's just wasting my time. For me technically, there is no difference by downloading Day one patch.
 
Have you not played Miles Morales on PS5? Miles has 3 game modes (Fidelity - 4K30fps with RayTracing / Performance - 4K60fps without Ray Tracing / Performance RT - Ray tracing at 60fps with dynamic 4K [achieved through temporal injection] )

this is how rift apart is going to work :)
Ah I’ve only played on fidelity - good to know! IDGAF about 4k anyway
 
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daclynk

Member
Why this day-one patch. couldn't they add it to the game before release. Enough with these unfinished tactics, i want my complete games day one. looks like days of getting complete games are over. i miss the those days. how did developers become soo lazy. looks like anti customer to me. i hate what internet has done to gaming.
 
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JaksGhost

Member
Why this day-one patch. couldn't they add it to the game before release. Enough with these unfinished tactics, i want my complete games day one. looks like days of getting complete games are over. i miss the those days. how did developers become soo lazy. looks like anti customer to me. i hate what internet has done to gaming.
You guys keep tossing out that term anti-consumer and most times it gets misused; this is one of this times.
 
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CamHostage

Member
Why this day-one patch. couldn't they add it to the game before release. Enough with these unfinished tactics, i want my complete games day one. looks like days of getting complete games are over. i miss the those days. how did developers become soo lazy. looks like anti customer to me. i hate what internet has done to gaming.

Lazy? They are continuing to work even past the point of certification.

They could have just called the game that's shipping in the box the final game, but because the box has to be printed weeks before the product releases, they can take that time and try to push for a new version that's even better on day one. They make the released product as good and as stable as a final game would be, then once that's gone to press, they isolate very specific projects for a patch that would have been ideal had they had the time. (The exception are cases where the disc version is faulty and the publisher went ahead with it as a "digital key" hoping to throw the whole thing out by the time it's in hands, but that's a rare and ridiculous case.) The fact that the consoles often require the patch be installed thanks to certification check, and that these patches are so enormous sometimes (because they are almost fully replacing the installable game; that's supposed to be cut back on drastically as these new consoles make use of new patching systems) that it takes you until to tomorrow to download the danged thing, that's a problem, but the patch itself is to make the product better. If they had delayed the game to put this Day One patch stuff on the disc, they just would have come up with more stuff to patch in or work on for the new release window.

It's an ugly part of the process if you like collecting physical games, but the downside of a game that can never be patched is pretty clear. Back in the day, only a certain number of things could go wrong in game production (and also, although making games was never easy, setting down the time needed to work wasn't as drastic a challenge because the games were much smaller in scope and production, on consoles that themselves might change underneath the game code.) Today, you pretty much cannot get every single detail perfect on the dot (especially in launch or first-year software for new platforms.) And luckily, you don't have to.

...Also, you're getting your complete games day one. That's why it's called a "Day One Patch".
 
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daclynk

Member
Lazy? They are continuing to work even past the point of certification.

They could have just called the game that's shipping in the box the final game, but because the box has to be printed weeks before the product releases, they can take that time and try to push for a new version that's even better on day one. They make the released product as good and as stable as a final game would be, then once that's gone to press, they isolate very specific projects for a patch that would have been ideal had they had the time. (The exception are cases where the disc version is faulty and the publisher went ahead with it as a "digital key" hoping to throw the whole thing out by the time it's in hands, but that's a rare and ridiculous case.) The fact that the consoles often require the patch be installed thanks to certification check, and that these patches are so enormous sometimes (because they are almost fully replacing the installable game; that's supposed to be cut back on drastically as these new consoles make use of new patching systems) that it takes you until to tomorrow to download the danged thing, that's a problem, but the patch itself is to make the product better. If they had delayed the game to put this Day One patch stuff on the disc, they just would have come up with more stuff to patch in or work on for the new release window.

It's an ugly part of the process if you like collecting physical games, but the downside of a game that can never be patched is pretty clear. Back in the day, only a certain number of things could go wrong in game production (and they had time to work on it because the games were much smaller in scope and production.) Today, you pretty much cannot get every single detail perfect on the dot (especially in launch or first-year software for new platforms.) And luckily, you don't have to.

...Also, you're getting your complete games day one. That's why it's called a "Day One Patch".
so it has nothing to do with fix a problem? its like the new norm which developer use nowadays to fix problems in which they should prevented before releasing. This goes to every developer out there. And u wonder why EA still release broken games. cause they know they can always release fix and patches later. They Need to be Called out on.

Edit: sorry for double post.
 
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Md Ray

Member
Yup, it's pretty sharp and impressive. Best mode. Here's some footage:


Really nice. Even if 60fps RT is slightly compromised over 30fps RT, that is still better than no RT at all.

And 60fps is a cherry on top. Insomniac really knows how to put the hardware to good use.
 
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CamHostage

Member
so it has nothing to do with fix a problem? its like the new norm which developer use nowadays to fix problems in which they should prevented before releasing. This goes to every developer out there. And u wonder why EA still release broken games. cause they know they can always release fix and patches later. They Need to be Called out on.
If they launch it on day 1 with all the patches needed to have as close to perfect a first experience as possible, and especially if there never was a problem with the disc and they're just packing in additional improvements, there never is a broken game that the consumer plays, so there is no problem to fix.

You do get a shitty coaster in the box if you buy physical (which is becoming fewer and fewer people,) but with the way these consoles depend on the SSD, you wouldn't be using the disc for much besides an install anyway.

If you are buying EA games and finding them to be broken when you go to play them, don't play EA games. They are doing this process wrong. Your game might improve over time, but you should never be playing a broken game. Don't buy products from companies who don't deliver satisfactory games when you play them.
 
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VFXVeteran

Banned
I was told that as well but it's handling multiple dimensions differently than Ratchet does. I guess the worst part about the medium is that there's a noticeable hit to performance to doing that. I'm just happy that Ratchet doesn't seem to be tanking peformance with what we've seen so far.
There will be a noticeable hit to performance because it has two framebuffers to fill at the same moment in time. That means a lot. Two shaders, two sets of lights, two different instances of characters animated differently, etc. Not to mention that the game has some of the best PBR shaders and RT just makes for a huge load on the system graphically. I wouldn't be snide at The Medium's efforts. While it doesn't have the fast load of SSD, it is more complicated to render than R&C.
 
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Moonjt9

Member
Will play a little bit with 30fps fidelity to see how great it looks, then it’s on to the performance RT mode for the rest of the game. I hope it doesn’t have too many cutbacks in the graphics department.
 

martino

Member
thanks to fnac got you can get it 15 € back so virtually 55€, at this price day one eyes closes.
it will be 1080p rt for me with this kind of da
 
Thats really dope. I was playing some virtua fighter yesterday and randomly got a message telling me the game had updated, I wonder if that was the patch enabling these modes

Man 5 more days, atleast it won't be AS long with Guilty Gear Unlocking on the 8th(And im off work..!) lol
 
What Ratchet is doing could be done without this fast SSD? Even with SSD?
Yes, yes it could... with sacrifices.
The point of Ratchet is that the fast SSD (with all it's channels and compression) allows this to be done without any sacrifices, no tricks. The developer don't need to reduce quality, reserve memory, and as time passes and technology progresses with Mesh Shaders, things like Nanite and Lumen this means that with time games will be able to do that with level even more detailed than now, again, without sacrifices and changeless.
 
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If they launch it on day 1 with all the patches needed to have as close to perfect a first experience as possible, and especially if there never was a problem with the disc and they're just packing in additional improvements, there never is a broken game that the consumer plays, so there is no problem to fix.

You do get a shitty coaster in the box if you buy physical (which is becoming fewer and fewer people,) but with the way these consoles depend on the SSD, you wouldn't be using the disc for much besides an install anyway.

If you are buying EA games and finding them to be broken when you go to play them, don't play EA games. They are doing this process wrong. Your game might improve over time, but you should never be playing a broken game. Don't buy products from companies who don't deliver satisfactory games when you play them.
Nah. It's incomplete and day 1 patching is a really shitty practice if it's to include anything but minor bug fixes. It's just greed and consumers that defend it deserve everything they get in the all digital future. We've known Ratchet will have a 60fps mode for months. It wasn't : the downloaded or patched version will have a 60fps mode.

Not going to stop me from buying it, though what could have been a more expensive purchase will now for sure be a $20 or less one.

I get it, this is the situation with games now, but corporate bootlicking like this have enabled it. Doesn't stop me from playing games, but I absolutely do not support it and call it out. It's certainly not me keeping the AAA industry afloat with day one purchases.
 
It feels like the latest way to lock people into digital.
That's all it is. Just like the last game had a weapon locked to pre order (not sure if this one does too?)

But there's a certain set of gamers that would be physically hurt or something if they acknowledge how shitty patching practices have become.
 
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