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Redfall Developer Says They Were Mocked By Other Developers

NickFire

Member
The people who took money for a poor product do not deserve sympathy for releasing a poor product. Full stop IMO.

This isn't a 4th grade science fair where kids are praised regardless.

This is not some 60k year college where we give safe spaces to stupid ideas.

This is the real world. And in the real world if you charge people money for a poor product, your reputation takes a hit. If that is an issue, don't participate in releasing a poor product.
 

Fuz

Banned
Also, welcome to the real world. It's shitty? Yes. Do I wish things were different? Yes. But it's also the reality of this world. You better grow a spine and stop being professionally offended all the time.

Those people are really sheltered and coddled and they're about to get a rude awakening.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
The people who took money for a poor product do not deserve sympathy for releasing a poor product. Full stop IMO.

This isn't a 4th grade science fair where kids are praised regardless.

This is not some 60k year college where we give safe spaces to stupid ideas.

This is the real world. And in the real world if you charge people money for a poor product, your reputation takes a hit. If that is an issue, don't participate in releasing a poor product.
And even worse. Full price $70 US. And this is no indie game in budget or price made by a noname studio.

If a car company launches a clunker, the company takes the hit. The key difference is car employees and drivers dont gab on social media chumming it up or complaining on Twitter or doing Q&A sessions on Reddit. So if gaming wants to be social, you'll get social customers. I don think the average car guy on an assembly line or doing white collar work at HQ is going for popularity with Twitter profiles hyping up their career and cars. So hey, you got to take the good with the bad.
 
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Maybe it was done that way on purpose.

The house was under renovations. Contractors put up the chimney first, and the hole to the living room would come later.

Arkane just needed to clarify the situation. LOL
the good ol' "it was actually 4D chess" excuse then? Damn it... they can't keep getting away with it!! :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Rickyiez

Member
This is sad , there really are plenty of scums out there .

Some of you guys here really have no idea of working life huh ? Imagine you were to build a house but only given 1 week , while the other contractor from the same neighborhood had 1 month and they were laughing at your poor job and said you deserved it .
 
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They are allowed to fuck up a project and move on to a hit. I don't need devs wallowing for 10 years trying to resurrect flawed ideas.

Whats the problem with selling bad games? People sell bad games all the time. This just lacks "for fans of..." And that will always be the case.
 

NickFire

Member
And even worse. Full price $70 US. And this is no indie game in budget or price made by a noname studio.

If a car company launches a clunker, the company takes the hit. The key difference is car employees and drivers dont gab on social media chumming it up or complaining on Twitter or doing Q&A sessions on Reddit. So if gaming wants to be social, you'll get social customers. I don think the average car guy on an assembly line or doing white collar work at HQ is going for popularity with Twitter profiles hyping up their career and cars. So hey, you got to take the good with the bad.
And I think if we're being really honest, we probably suspect that a big part of the game's problem might stem from hiring people who think complaining about criticism for shifty work (on social media no less) is the appropriate response.
 

th4tguy

Member
Five years people. That’s the average life span of a game dev career.
You get paid better, treated better, and have less crazy hours in any other technology sector as a developer. This industry preys on the young and passionate.
 

tmlDan

Member
This is sad , there really are plenty of scums out there .

Some of you guys here really have no idea of working life huh ? Imagine you were to build a house but only given 1 week , while the other contractor from the same neighborhood had 1 month and they were laughing at your poor job and said you deserved it .
pretty sure they had 6 years
 

NonPhixion

Member
Seeing Devs I looked up to, releasing a broken $70 game, essentially saying things like ‘They deserved this’ ‘Now their money is ours lol’ ‘what fucking idiots’ etc have, truthfully, been the only things to bother me.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Five years people. That’s the average life span of a game dev career.
You get paid better, treated better, and have less crazy hours in any other technology sector as a developer. This industry preys on the young and passionate.
I'd assume yes too.

However, you got tons of people who dream about gaming (we all have), so they force themselves to slog it in gaming. You can be a coder doing ERP systems and a graphic designer for big companies marketing and ad agencies. OK no doubt, it's not as cool as making video games, but the job and hours are surely more stable. But many will gun for gaming even though you hear about shitty hours, pay or lousy corporate culture.

I'd love it if I did finance for a game company. Cool offices, games everywhere, free shit, you hear about next gen system specs and games earlier than everyone else. Hell, I'd even see how much sales each game does instead of going on wishy washy sales reports which doesn't even include all stores.

But I'm not going to kill myself gunning for employment there if I'm happy working in other industries selling much more boring stuff.
 

GymWolf

Member
Time isn't the issue with MS exclusive game development. It's poor leadership and lack of guidance. I am a teacher. You can give certain kids all the time in the world to complete a project and most of them won't put in any effort UNLESS they have proper oversight and are constantly being pushed. You also have those kids who are trying but do indeed need extra time to get it right.


I'm sorry but nothing in MS recent output has suggested that something simple like "giving the devs enough time" would have fixed this. Halo Infinite was delayed a whole year and it was still lukewarm. This is my fear with Starfield. I have long worried that it's a game that is overly ambitious and that it will end up being crushed under it's own weight. Gears and Forza are the exception since both of those of studios had strong figureheads running them. Rodd Fergusson (who is now leading Diablo 4) being the most obvious example.
An expert team like arkane should not need the guidance of someone like phil spencer, they did pretty well before getting absorbed by M.

The hope was that with M money we would have arkane quality with triple A production values but alas...

After 5-6 years in development i can only give that much shit to M for this game even after the bullshit interview with phil.
 
Looking at her profile picture and pronouns...

If You Say So Ok GIF by Bounce
 

Nvzman

Member
After seeing Battlefield 2042's launch and DICE's incredibly overly sensitive internal dialogue ("stop being so mean!" Despite just being told something is not working), it's honestly hard for me to give a fuck.
Sorry, if you release a product this shit and devoid of talent, you reap what you sow. If they singled people out and harassed them, that's different. But being mocked as a team for making such creatively and technically bankrupt $70 crap, it's really really hard to be sympathetic.

People need to grow up and realize the world isn't going to pat you on the back for making a sub-par effort, and they honestly shouldn't. It tends to breed indifference and even worse, thinking it's okay to be pushing crap. I know individually id much rather be told what I'm doing is shit vs being dishonest and leading me to thinking it's acceptable just to not hurt my feelings.
 
Its not bullying for someone to say your game is shit if it is shit. Like, because they work in the same industry arre they supposed to say "great launch guys, its a banger". The more time passes, the more people are sensitive to criticism . Maybe they are making fun or whatever it is they said because they too have talent in their office and are wondering, how could you fuck up basic stuff like proportions....chair is bigger than a stove, a chimney is some random wide block the size of a bathtub etc.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
After seeing Battlefield 2042's launch and DICE's incredibly overly sensitive internal dialogue ("stop being so mean!" Despite just being told something is not working), it's honestly hard for me to give a fuck.
Sorry, if you release a product this shit and devoid of talent, you reap what you sow. If they singled people out and harassed them, that's different. But being mocked as a team for making such creatively and technically bankrupt $70 crap, it's really really hard to be sympathetic.

People need to grow up and realize the world isn't going to pat you on the back for making a sub-par effort, and they honestly shouldn't. It tends to breed indifference and even worse, thinking it's okay to be pushing crap. I know individually id much rather be told what I'm doing is shit vs being dishonest and leading me to thinking it's acceptable just to not hurt my feelings.
The world has a lot of attention seekers and people who need pats on the back. I'm not one of those people and told my old boss (who was a really good guy and can give you so much positive feedback it got nauseating). But at the time he was new so he did it to everyone. I told him face to face dont worry about it. I know my job and dont need chummy comments. I can tell when people appreciate the work by them just using my analysis and the fact I still work here and come to me for help. I dont need someone to say "Great job! Youre the best!"

However, some people need motivation. One of the regional bosses would tell me Gail would feel down and out unless she kept telling her she's on track and doing a good job. If she didn't get good feedback she assumed she was doing a bad job. This person was like 52 years old. So it's not like she was a new grad just getting used to a full time job. Person has been working for probably 30 years and still needs a boss to act like a babysitter.
 
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GymWolf

Member
Five years, not six. That extra year could’ve helped.
They literally said that this is the arkane game that was more similar to their initial concept compared to every other game they made, this is exactly what they were hoping to achieve 5 years ago.

Someone posted the source of arkane saying that on reee if i remember well.

1 year more would have helped with the bugs, not with the game being rotten to the core.

I played the game on gamepass for long enough, most aspects of it are absolutely dreadfull, dead island 2 is much more of an immersive sims than this is ever gonna be.
 
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GymWolf

Member
I am sorry but when you produce a game that even DF says looks worse than 360 games than you deserve to be mocked and shamed.

Be better next time and take pride in what you do. Phoning in 2005 era graphics is no longer acceptable on next Gen hardware. It’s not like they are being held back by hardware like Nintendo devs.
Believe me, graphic, at least on a powerfull pc is the last of this game's problem.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
They literally said that this is the arkane game that was more similar to their initial concept compared to every other game they made, this is exactly what they were hoping to achieve 5 years ago.

Someone posted the source of arkane saying that on reee if i remember well.

1 year more would have helped with the bugs, not with the game being rotten to the core.

I played the game on gamepass for long enough, most aspects of it are absolutely dreadfull, dead island 2 is much more of an immersive sims than this is ever gonna be.

I think the bugs are the biggest issue with the game. Don’t get me wrong, even with bugs fixed and more enemies present it would still be mediocre.

Arkane totally fumbled what should’ve been a great game on paper.
 

Bry0

Member
That sucks, but so does the game. Not sure what the point is in worrying so much about what others say and broadcasting it to twitter. The devs she supposedly look up to probably also make crap games. Hell, maybe they actually weren’t worth looking up to in the first place?
 
I’ve been in the workforce for over 25 years…not once have I had a job where there wasn’t at least one colleague or peer there that mocked or gave a difficult time to others for not doing their best or putting out an inferior product. As shitty as it is, that’s life. It’s going to happen to everyone everywhere. I wish it didn’t and I don’t agree with it, but it’s life, suck it up, learn from it, and get better because of it. Growth my friends.
 

Ogbert

Member
The only mistake MS made was allowing such an absurdly shit game to be released.

Arkane should be embarrassed.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
Well that's really shitty. It's amazing how childish and disrespectful some grown-ass people can be. And from personal experience seeing this kind of thing in the past, I can almost 100% guarantee you any of the professionals flinging shade are probably some of the absolute worst in their profession. I bet many have never even shipped a game.
 
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Seeing people I looked up to saying things like ‘They deserved this’ ‘Now their resumes are tainted lol’ ‘what fucking idiots’ etc have, truthfully, been the only things to bother me.

so, these people are to blame for the fact that, up till now, you've completely misjudged their true character? the only one responsible for you having 'looked up to' these people? you! i suggest you learn from this & move on...
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The problem falls on both sides.

No, because the publisher is the one who makes their problem, the end-user's problem.
If you’re providing money for something, you’ll need to get returns at a point. Devs commit to delivering a product at a particular time, with a particular quality treshold.
You can’t keep blaming the people who pay for everything when the guys crunching the actual work aren’t able to put in stuff that’s standard fare at this point.

They are paying for milestones across years of development, if there are intrinsic problems they should be able to see them coming miles off from release and adjust accordingly.

Not to mention that its not unusual for the original creative to constantly revised in accordance with publisher edicts based on their vision for what is marketable and profitable. The reason why "hands off" publishing is generally seen as preferable because if the publisher (typically represented by an external or executive producer put in place to hole the creative vision) starts flip-flopping and adding items to the schedule, it can and often does go badly.

Especially when the project has already had a year long delay.

If they spent that year continuing to publicly hype the product despite knowing that development was going badly, how is this excusable?

Blaming publishers is the popular thing, but as we’ve seen with the Scalebound case, it isn’t always correct.

I'm betting you don't know anything about the specifics of what happened with Scalebound, and certainly not both sides of the story, so please.

Blaming publishers is ALWAYS appropriate because they have perverse incentives (insofar as they can -and do- make a determination to cut their losses at all points from inception to publication) and are the ones with executive control.
 

ZoukGalaxy

Member
In any job in the world, if you do a bad job, your colleagues can mock you for a laugh, even give you a permanent nickname and nobody's giving a shit, I don't see why it would be different for devs.

accident fail GIF


Just assume your (very) bad work, learn from your mistakes and stand up to take all this to derision instead being a weak crybaby on social media, why devs would have a special care treatment ? Stop this nonsense shit, what did you expect ? The world applauding you ?!

This world is really turning into bad shit with everybody so weak and offended for nothing and anything, like if everyone must be treated like a precious child.

Confused Lord Of The Rings GIF by Xbox


I'm not talking about bullying, THIS is absolutely inacceptable.
 
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ANDS

King of Gaslighting
The people who took money for a poor product do not deserve sympathy for releasing a poor product. Full stop IMO.

This isn't a 4th grade science fair where kids are praised regardless.

This is not some 60k year college where we give safe spaces to stupid ideas.

This is the real world. And in the real world if you charge people money for a poor product, your reputation takes a hit. If that is an issue, don't participate in releasing a poor product.

And the unproductive shit posting thrown at the developers who almost surely didn't want the product shipped in this state? What part of your real world does that go on? Because I was just a part of a multi-dept. presentation where a group from another dept. completely shit the bed but I didn't blurt out in the meeting or in an email blast "Jesus Christ, but did Dept. X put on a stinker of a presentation."

. . .it's like tact no longer exists.
 

Boss Mog

Member
I never expected this game to be good because it was Austin, so right off the bat you knew that skill wasn't going to be prioritized in the hiring process of that dev team. The fact that this person has pronouns and is whining about being criticized confirms this.
 

Phase

Member
Gee, a female developer with her preferred pronouns in her Twitter bio butthurt by the opinion of others. MILD SHOCK!!!!
Their game is complete trash, they deserve all the flack they can get. Another result of affirmative action I wonder?
People still blaming the publisher at every instance of a crap game need to start seeing reality. I'm betting in the last 10 or so years that many skilled devs left large studios to develop their own studios, creating a void in talent and skill that is not being filled. Rather, they're hiring by checking boxes and not based on who is best for the job.

Of course, this won't be true everywhere but I'm convinced at this point it's playing a large part in the AAA space.
 
Microsoft management is to blame, not the devs.

They knew the game was in this state but still pushed for a release anyway.
Yup. Phil even admitted when he did that KF interview the footage they gave for IGN was BS and running specific footage on the highest-end PC, while claiming it was representative of Xbox footage.

In fact, Phil admitted several things that he really shouldn't have. Him doing that interview in that mindset was a huge mistake in judgement. He even, at one point, stared how he might not be in charge there much longer, if things continue as they are.

If Microsoft hadn't bought Bethesda, would this game have released in this state? There's no way we can ever know, but I highly doubt it based on the studio's prior history.
 
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Maxwell Jacob Friedman

leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Good, no pun intended step up your game. Its a dog eat dog world, you tried to give us chicken salad and gave us chicken shit. You also lied to the influencers and showed them a lie as well.
 

GymWolf

Member
I think the bugs are the biggest issue with the game. Don’t get me wrong, even with bugs fixed and more enemies present it would still be mediocre.

Arkane totally fumbled what should’ve been a great game on paper.
They are not, trust me.

And tbh, i had a fairly bug free experience on pc.

Even my love for open world, arkane and shlooter wasn't enough to make me endure this game for more than 12 hours, and i really tried to love it.
 
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