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[AlteredForms]

True, I doubt it as well. But it probably being personal is even more stupid, if true of course.

The Redfall developers lost and then shit on themselves. #Brownfall

I mean she's basically part of a band of thieves.....they took peoples money and gave them a broken piece of shit......and now she's complaining about being called out.Here's an idea.....why don't you fuck off!

 

[Banjo64]

This is sad , there really are plenty of scums out there .

Some of you guys here really have no idea of working life huh ? Imagine you were to build a house but only given 1 week , while the other contractor from the same neighborhood had 1 month and they were laughing at your poor job and said you deserved it .

Sounds like you have no idea mate.

 

[ssringo]

Call them out by name with receipts. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

>put out shit product
>get criticized
>claim you're being harassed (with zero proof)
>repeat

 

[kyussman]

I mean she's basically part of a band of thieves.....they took peoples money and gave them a broken piece of shit......and now she's complaining about being called out.Here's an idea.....why don't you fuck off!

 

[Mr Wonderstuff]

She says she's a 2D artist (and I didn’t even need to guess her gender because she put it on her bio). How much of an involvement is there of a 2D artist in actual game development? Early pre-production concepts and marketing?

Texture artist? To be honest doesn't matter her role the whole thing sounds bloody awful to have your peers behave like that.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

People still blaming the publisher at every instance of a crap game need to start seeing reality. I'm betting in the last 10 or so years that many skilled devs left large studios to develop their own studios, creating a void in talent and skill that is not being filled. Rather, they're hiring by checking boxes and not based on who is best for the job.

Of course, this won't be true everywhere but I'm convinced at this point it's playing a large part in the AAA space.

Yup.

And this game had what? 5 years and a big budget.

The game sucks. So management is supposed to say here's another 3 years and more budget? The game had a delay already and going by the looks of it it's not like an additional 6 months of work and a few patches will make it go from a 55 to a 75. The game doesn't even run at 60 fps to start with.

It's an open world vampire hunting game. And the open world by the looks of it isnt even a giant UBI or ES game. Its smaller in scope..

Games cost a lot of money to make, so it looks like companies have to just force themselves to release it make some money and move on. Big studios often have multiple projects going on too. So Arkane Austin is probably already working on another game. Take too long and that new project bottlenecks too. Game studios typically have what? One main game they are working on and another in prep. Most companies that sell shit have 10s or 100s of variations so if something goes bad, they can delay or cancel it. Not a big deal when there's 68 other items still selling.

As for people saying "do you think employees want to release a bad game?" Well no guff. Does anyone think management wants to release a bad game? Who takes the heat on stage doing Q&A with a mic in their face explaining why things gone bad? Bosses.

 

[GymWolf]

This is sad , there really are plenty of scums out there .

Some of you guys here really have no idea of working life huh ? Imagine you were to build a house but only given 1 week , while the other contractor from the same neighborhood had 1 month and they were laughing at your poor job and said you deserved it .

In a bit less than "an arkane's week" fromsoft made elden ring...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

In a bit less than "an arkane's week" fromsoft made elden ring...

If 1 week is 5 years, I never knew other studios got 20 years to make a game.

 

[Alebrije]

Can someone explain why Todd Howard is not blamed for Redfall?

Why Phill took all the blame? What is the role of TH on Bethesda?

If TH is the boss of Bethesda and Arkane depends of it that means TH should take responsabily.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Can someone explain why Todd Howard is not blamed for Redfall?

Why Phill took all the blame? What is the role of TH on Bethesda?

If TH is the boss of Bethesda and Arkane depends of it that means TH should take responsabily.

Todd blame is being saved until September.

 

[GymWolf]

Can someone explain why Todd Howard is not blamed for Redfall?

Why Phill took all the blame? What is the role of TH on Bethesda?

If TH is the boss of Bethesda and Arkane depends of it that means TH should take responsabily.

I think todd has zero affairs with arkane.

Starfield is probably taking all of his time.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

As for who is head of Arkane, Wiki says this if it's accurate. If it is, where is Harvey Smith the past week and a half?

Arkane Studios - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Key people	Dinga Bakaba (studio director of Arkane Lyon) Harvey Smith (studio director of Arkane Austin)

 

[NickFire]

And the unproductive shit posting thrown at the developers who almost surely didn't want the product shipped in this state? What part of your real world does that go on? Because I was just a part of a multi-dept. presentation where a group from another dept. completely shit the bed but I didn't blurt out in the meeting or in an email blast "Jesus Christ, but did Dept. X put on a stinker of a presentation."

. . .it's like tact no longer exists.

What are you saying / asking? I have no clue.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

People like this are so annoying.

 

[DeepEnigma]

As for who is head of Arkane, Wiki says this if it's accurate. If it is, where is Harvey Smith the past week and a half?

Arkane Studios - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Key people	Dinga Bakaba (studio director of Arkane Lyon) Harvey Smith (studio director of Arkane Austin)

https://twitter.com/Harvey1966

(he/him)

 

[JohnnyFootball]

An expert team like arkane should not need the guidance of someone like phil spencer, they did pretty well before getting absorbed by M.

The hope was that with M money we would have arkane quality with triple A production values but alas...

After 5-6 years in development i can only give that much shit to M for this game even after the bullshit interview with phil.

This wasn't the "expert arkane team" that developed the Dishonored games. It was Arkane Austin. They did develop Prey so it's not out of this realm to expect better.

So no, this is on MS.

 

[VolticArchangel]

I understand both, the frustration of the customer who paid $70 or $1 for this game with this level of quality, and the hurtful nature of reality that devs face among their peers whom their look upto, when they let them down.

The customer who paid for your product is always right, and has every right to criticize your for your shortcomings. That's how you improve as a dev. Your peers? They just proved to you that they are your competitors.

Ladies and Gents, do NOT idolize other human beings, especially in a corporate environment. It's a ticking time bomb. They are human beings, just like you and when they show their true nature, the scar will remain for a long time, even more if these "heroes" are ones you grew up consuming their product/content. They DGAF about you, glee with schadenfreude when you're down and praise you like they raised you when you're at the peak of success. It's the cruel reality of the world for most humans. Don't form parasocial relationships in your head and get into depression when these individuals don't reciprocate to your desires.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

"Some people are mean"....

..... yeah... and?!

 

[Alebrije]

I think todd has zero affairs with arkane.

Starfield is probably taking all of his time.

If this is true I get how MS-Bethesda-Arkane is.disconected and why cases.like Redfall could happen again.

 

[DragonNCM]

Mocked ? Difficult launch ? & you charged 70$ ?

 

[GymWolf]

This wasn't the "expert arkane team" that developed the Dishonored games. It was Arkane Austin. They did develop Prey so it's not out of this realm to expect better.

So no, this is on MS.

And how did M got arkane austin from producing one of the most beloved immersive sims of all times to this thing?

Especially when they were alone for the majority of development time.

Do you think 5 years wasn't enough for this type of game and M should have burned even more money into a rotten project? because 5 years are way more than enough for games that are 50 times bigger than redfall.

M big mistake was asking 70 dollars for the game, this was a shitty move.

 

[GymWolf]

If this is true I get how MS-Bethesda-Arkane is.disconected and why cases.like Redfall could happen again.

we don't know what happened to arkane, maybe they bleed out talented devs, who knows....

Bethesda is also on a descending trajectory between f4 and f76 but i have an hunch that starfield is gonna deliver somehow.

Both teams started the decline before M acquisition, deathloop was basically ready when M acquired bethesda.

 

[Otre]

That enemy AI deserves to be mocked.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Or she didn't want to cite people and it is real.

Could be. Better to remove all doubt if casting aspersions

 

[Arsic]

Boo fucking hoo. Launch shit, get hit. It isnt personal.

Like the posts here blaming Phil. Phil didn’t encourage a short looter shooter with few enemies , dumb AI(now a staple of Arkane 2 games in a row), terrible loot system , and much much more.

If Arkane was proud and having fun of their core gameplay loop taking out the bugs, performance, and even moronic AI, then they need to be shut down. You’re clueless as fuck. You from the jump made shit and enjoyed it. How ? Do you not play any other games to get an idea for why something popular in the same genre works ? Play some Destiny 2 and you’d quickly realize how off base you were.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Here comes the pity party redemption tour. I guess that's all they've got left considering what an unsalvageable piece of shit this game is.

PS: Also can't wait for the inevitable "tell us who did this to you, who hurt you" "guys no...I just can't...OKAY, here are the 4834 screenshots lol" and subsequent drama cycle including accusations of misogyny, ERA meltdowns and calls for firings. I can see it now and it could be glorious.

Kotaku next week: "Why gaming devs need to do better; Redfall score revised to 9/10 because hardships"

 

[JohnnyFootball]

And how did M got arkane austin from producing one of the most beloved immersive sims of all times to this thing?

Especially when they were alone for the majority of development time.

Do you think 5 years wasn't enough for this type of game and M should have burned even more money into a rotten project? because 5 years are way more than enough for games that are 50 times bigger than redfall.

M big mistake was asking 70 dollars for the game, this was a shitty move.

If MS had competent people evaluating things, this game would have gotten cancelled early on. So yes, this is on MS. Not saying Arkane doesn't deserve much of the blame, but it's ultimately MS responsibility especially when this has been a trend of theirs.

 

[GymWolf]

If MS had competent people evaluating things, this game would have gotten cancelled early on. So yes, this is on MS. Not saying Arkane doesn't deserve much of the blame, but it's ultimately MS responsibility especially when this has been a trend of theirs.

Early on? after 3,5 years that they were working on it? the game was well beyond scrapping zone when M had any power over it.

I think they just wanted to release this thing as soon as possible after they sniffed how bad it was, they gave arkane a delay to make the game at least alpha-state playable and hoped for the best.

Shit, greedy management all you want, M still didn't made the game, arkane did.

 

[Ozriel]

I'm betting you don't know anything about the specifics of what happened with Scalebound, and certainly not both sides of the story, so please.

Yes, disregard what the devs themselves said about the game

 

[Ozriel]

If MS had competent people evaluating things, this game would have gotten cancelled early on. So yes, this is on MS. Not saying Arkane doesn't deserve much of the blame, but it's ultimately MS responsibility especially when this has been a trend of theirs.

Early on? By the time the purchase deal went through with Bethesda, it was little more than a year from the projected release date.

The Game devt started in 2018. But you already knew this…

but it's ultimately MS responsibility especially when this has been a trend of theirs.

trend? most of their games since 2019 have been very well received, critically speaking.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Early on? after 3,5 years that they were working on it? the game was well beyond scrapping zone when M had any power over it.

I think they just wanted to release this thing as soon as possible after they sniffed how bad it was, they gave arkane a delay to make the game at least alpha-state playable and hoped for the best.

Shit, greedy management all you want, M still didn't made the game, arkane did.

The problem is that you can't play the greedy management, the hands off management and the first party game with marketing push management at the same time.

MS got a problematic game when they took Bethesda, yes. They choose to continue with it. They choose to market it. They choose to delay it. And they choose to give it to us in the state that it is now. It was a shitty situation that did not go better. MS got difficult choices that were bad no matter what. But they are a console manufacturer, and as such they are compared to the best of the industry.

When Rockstar were publishing LA noire, they did as many delays as needed and send people to fix it when it was clear that the management at team bondi was the problem.8 years. And the game Agent( a supposed playstation exclusive for the ps3 I think) is MIA.

Sony delayed The Last guardian until it was ready. They jumped it from PS3 to PS4.Around 9 years of dev. And they cancelled a Santa Monica game just before they did GOW.

Nintendo are working on Metroid Prime 4 since 2017. It changed studios at least once.
What is wrong in blaming Microsoft of not being at that level? Of delaying until success is found or scraping it?
The worse thing is, we had Phil explain why they did it that way, and each decision can be accepted by itself, but the sum of it is Redfall. And he took responsibility for it.

 

[OCASM]

 

[Ozriel]

The problem is that you can't play the greedy management, the hands off management and the first party game with marketing push management at the same time.

MS got a problematic game when they took Bethesda, yes. They choose to continue with it. They choose to market it. They choose to delay it. And they choose to give it to us in the state that it is now. It was a shitty situation that did not go better. MS got difficult choices that were bad no matter what. But they are a console manufacturer, and as such they are compared to the best of the industry.

When Rockstar were publishing LA noire, they did as many delays as needed and send people to fix it when it was clear that the management at team bondi was the problem.8 years. And the game Agent( a supposed playstation exclusive for the ps3 I think) is MIA.

Sony delayed The Last guardian until it was ready. They jumped it from PS3 to PS4.Around 9 years of dev. And they cancelled a Santa Monica game just before they did GOW.

Nintendo are working on Metroid Prime 4 since 2017. It changed studios at least once.
What is wrong in blaming Microsoft of not being at that level? Of delaying until success is found or scraping it?
The worse thing is, we had Phil explain why they did it that way, and each decision can be accepted by itself, but the sum of it is Redfall. And he took responsibility for it.

so in summary, any decision they would have made (scrapping it, long term delays, releasing it in a middling state) would have resulted in a 30 page thread here.

At least this frees up Arkane devs to work on something else.

 

[Captain Toad]

Five years people. That’s the average life span of a game dev career.
You get paid better, treated better, and have less crazy hours in any other technology sector as a developer. This industry preys on the young and passionate.

Yup, I got my degree in computer science and got my career as a software developer. No way I would want to work as a game developer for a fraction of the pay and much higher stress and hours.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Early on? By the time the purchase deal went through with Bethesda, it was little more than a year from the projected release date.

The Game devt started in 2018. But you already knew this…

MS should have been able to determine what state the game was in and been able to make a decision. Again, competent management would have caught this.

so in summary, any decision they would have made (scrapping it, long term delays, releasing it in a middling state) would have resulted in a 30 page thread here.

At least this frees up Arkane devs to work on something else.

Yes, it would have that is what incompetent management causes to happen.

 

[AlteredForms]

Yup, I got my degree in computer science and got my career as a software developer. No way I would want to work as a game developer for a fraction of the pay and much higher stress and hours.

How long have you been doing software engineering?

 

[Captain Toad]

How long have you been doing software engineering?

I worked in it for about 10 years. I quit to be a stay at home dad when my wife finished medical school and opened her clinic.

 

[AlteredForms]

I worked in it for about 10 years. I quit to be a stay at home dad when my wife finished medical school and opened her clinic.

Sounds like you got the rough end of the bargain lol. Planning on getting back into it once your children are grown up?

 

[Ozriel]

MS should have been able to determine what state the game was in and been able to make a decision. Again, competent management would have caught this.


Yes, it would have that is what incompetent management causes to happen.

They should have gone back in time to when the game started development and canned it?

 

[Captain Toad]

Sounds like you got the rough end of the bargain lol. Planning on getting back into it once your children are grown up?

I doubt it. My oldest is 14, but the youngest is 6.

I've thought about doing a class for kids where I teach programming. But, that would mostly for a hobby, not a need for money.

 

[Clear]

Yes, disregard what the devs themselves said about the game

Does that include the time Kamiya cursed out MS on Twitter?

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Phil Spencer himself threw the team under the bus. A lot of talent in that studio that should look elsewhere.

???? Did you listen to the interview? He literally did the opposite of what you’re describing

 

[Azurro]

They should have gone back in time to when the game started development and canned it?

No, MS should have canned the game instead of showing it off so prominently. The damage to the brand is much higher than the already sunk cost on the game.

 

[DAHGAMING]

Its ok, you can take the piss back when they release whatever broken piece of shit there working on, never know it might even be a worse lump of shit than Redfall.

 

[Pelta88]

Page 7 and still not a single receipt posted?

I'm calling bullshit.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The Redfall developers lost and then shit on themselves. #Brownfall

Developers are like Ogres.

But Redfall...

My opinion.

 

[Camreezie]

Can someone explain why Todd Howard is not blamed for Redfall?

Why Phill took all the blame? What is the role of TH on Bethesda?

If TH is the boss of Bethesda and Arkane depends of it that means TH should take responsabily.

Pretty sure if youre looking for a Bethesda man to blame for Arkane its more Pete Hines than Todd Howard

 

[Warablo]

Developers shouldn't "mock" their peers. They're better ways than just to jump on the hate train.

 

[Tams]

Some things are deserved.