firehawk12
Subete no aware
It was dumb because they had the same hero shot at the end of the episode, which makes you wonder why they had that slow mo explosion scene anyway.
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Sherlock Series 4 |OT| - Did You Miss Me?
- Thread starter bodyofanamerican
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Seriously, why even try if it's going to look like those african Lethal Weapon rip-offs?
Also Euros recognizes Bach, so she has to be smart. This series is shockingly low on inspiration.
I like how they were completely unharmed after jumping out of those windows.
yep, and how at the end the room was barely destroyed
Thinking on it, what made the episode actually good was all the reveals we got about Sherlock's past. Also everything about Euros was actually very interesting too right up until they explained she was just lonely. I just can't swallow that as an answer to everything she did right up until then. How was she even communicating with Sherlock from her room? She went from straight up sociopath to lonely recluse.
I think because Sherlock solved her "final problem". Cheesy, but serial killers that are saved from themselves often seek that powerful catharis (source: my existence research of another television show, Criminal Minds. Basically honorary PhD in forensic science and psychology, right there.)
An interesting thing to me was Moriarity talking about fucking his guards. So he really did have the hots for Sherlock, eh?
Secret Fawful
Member
Anyone else got 999 vibes from this episode? Even the twist was similar.
It was extremely similar. 999 is basically a far-better version of this.
Jim Moriarty
The dude is a John Woo villain. I wish they'd pulled some Kojima-esque bullshit to bring him back, I don't really care how contrived and stupid it has to be.
BTW,
they mentioned Moriarty's brother in this episode, so if they do another season, I think I know where that's going.
The episode had plenty of clumsiness but the only thing I'm actually mad about is the complete lack of resolution to what happened with
I enjoyed it on the whole. Her having literally
Molly. She confesses her love for him after all this time and all we get is a cameo of her smiling and walking into the repaired flat at the end.
I enjoyed it on the whole. Her having literally
every guard on the entire island wrapped around her finger was absurd and there were a few other inconsistencies, but I enjoyed finally learning about Redbeard.
Auron_Kale
Member
Good episode that was marred by a lot of over indulgence on Mofftiss' whims for me. Lots of things rubbed me the wrong way, particularly the cruelty towards Molly.
I liked Eurus and the back story for the Holmes siblings but felt almost indifferent by the end of it.
Overall Series 4 is a mixed bag for me.
Will be seeing TFP on the big screen in Berkeley tomorrow night though because I already bought my ticket...
I liked Eurus and the back story for the Holmes siblings but felt almost indifferent by the end of it.
Overall Series 4 is a mixed bag for me.
Will be seeing TFP on the big screen in Berkeley tomorrow night though because I already bought my ticket...
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Molly is basically a prop now. They don't even bother showing if anything happens after, other than a brief appearance in that montage.
And it pisses me off because she's da goat
poppedcollar69
Member
the episode overall was kiiiiinda awful, but as always the acting and production make it fun to watch
mycroft remains my fave char by far, loved the scene where he's
also:
this x10000000000
mycroft remains my fave char by far, loved the scene where he's
transparently trying to goad sherlock into killing him
also:
this x10000000000
I'm actually quite the opposite, I think it'd be a shame to end it here.
While I was disappointed with the way things wrapped up, including the complete waste of Morriarty. The actual end of the episode and final message from Mary felt kinda like a soft reboot for the show. Like they've shed all the more personal storyline stuff this season and will be returning to a focus on cases.
Auron_Kale
Member
Seriously... I really love Molly as she's grown as a character for me - easily one of my favorite parts in HLV (wasn't crazy about that episode either as a whole) - but she's really deserves so much better. That whole exchange in TFP, especially the subject of her "case", was really mean spirited imo.
meltingparappa
Member
Three simple things that would have helped the last five minutes end on a better note
Some mixed feelings on the episode as a whole, but what an unintentional unglamorous way to end it.
Change or remove Lestrad's corny line.
Have Molly doing ANY interaction with Sherlock during the montage (him apologizing/her forgiving or something to imply that she's finally over him but still friends or at least acknowledging the fallout from that phone call)
Take out the Batman Forever run
Have Molly doing ANY interaction with Sherlock during the montage (him apologizing/her forgiving or something to imply that she's finally over him but still friends or at least acknowledging the fallout from that phone call)
Take out the Batman Forever run
I would have settled for a shot of them both playing with the baby together but no. No.
Lestrade's line is a callback to the first episode of the series.
We do see
Molly
she seems happy, so they seem to have reached an understanding.
Auron_Kale
Member
This was actually something I liked in the episode because it was directly referencing what he said about Sherlock in ASiP.
Lestrade was always someone who believed in Sherlock and it was great to see other people seeing it too for themselves.
And a reminder, no more need for tags now that the episode has aired.
I'm about to break it down for some of y'all.
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You guys complain about bad CGI. Even though this is like a movie length, you guys seem to forget that this is still a tv show. The budget aren't going to be like blockbuster movies, so the CGI aren't going to be amazing. An average budget for a Sherlock episode is about 2.7 millions. In comparison, House of Cards is about 4.5 millions. Daredevil is about 4 millions and Games of Thrones is about 8 millions.
For most people, your room is often the safest place in the world. If she was lonely as a child, most likely she probably did spend most of her time in that room. You could also look at it as metaphorically, her room being her 'mind'. This whole time on the island Sherlock was looking at her as the villain, an enemy and when he was a kid, he was more obsessed with finding Redbeard that he didn't truly see the puzzle in her song. The song that she kept singing to him, it was her way of calling for help.
Sometimes there can be too much cheese.
She didnt plan it in 5 minutes, you misheard. Chances are she probably planned this for a long time now. Sherlock said (paraphrasing) "She did this to us in 5 minutes." Meaning that in such a short amount of time, she managed to get them to this point where Sherlock, John and Mycroft are extremely stressed and emotional. In a short amount of time, she broke them.
Same thing could be said about people foolishly hoping for MollyxSherlock. He was never attracted to her, but then again his attraction is more different than most. The only person he feel any sort of attraction to is the Woman.
She wasn't his contigency plan like you think it was. It was more like she gave him a proposition. That if things were to go wrong, she would step in. So obviously when Sherlock defeated Moriarty on the top of that roof, and he killed himself. Moriarty was completely fine with that. As Eurussaid, Moriarty was more interested in causing trouble than being alive. So as long as there is some way of truly fucking up Sherlock, he wouldn't mind dying for it.
Eurus is clearly a demented person, a psychopath. Most people who are like that has some deep rooted personal issues. (obviously) So I don't see the problem with her revelation being what it is. It's not like most psychopath just wakes up one day and want to kill people or cause mayhem.
See immediately above for your first paragraph. People die all the time in Sherlock, emotional stuff happens all the time. Quite a few episodes ended on a happy note with some cheese. I don't know why this is out of the ordinary. Though I do agree that they seem to be in a hurry to wrap it up, making it a bit anticlimactic.
Mary loves John, so even in her death (or before her death) she knew how badly it would affect John. The only person that John is close to is Sherlock. She probably made those tapes either because she knew someone from her past was going to kill her or right after Sherlock told her that there is an assassin's coming after her. Either way, she knew that Sherlock would promise John that he would protect her and that if anything happens to her, John being emotional would blame Sherlock. So it makes sense the line "You have to save John Watson, by letting him save you."
She knew the fallout that would happen if she were to die that way, and that the only way to mend the relationship is to create that feeling that Sherlock was truly in danger, cause she knows that if John knew the danger was real. There was no way, John would not save him.
They actually did touch upon it in the episode. The governor said he lets several people talked to Eurus alone. Probably professionals to try and study her. The on the tape recording, it was revealed that even the governor did at some point. It would make sense that at some point she systematically infected key personnel inside the prison. The governor, the doctors, a guard here and there. She was outside the prison, all those moments with Sherlock and Watson. She had complete control the moment the boys step foot on the island. They walked into her trap.
Yeah, I love it. A lot of things went full circles.
You means, the scene at the end when you see Sherlock and Watson in the room and they were trying to put everything back together? (worst attempt ever)
I think that was AFTER they got back from the island, rescuing John, saving Eurus and all that. I don't think that scene was right after the explosion. After the explosion, we obviously got a small time skip to where Sherlock and John landed on the boat. Presumably they take a bit of time to recuperate and then headed straight to the island to confront Eurus. Which would explain why they didn't look visibly injured during that last scene.
He gave her a Christmas kiss on the cheek. That's probably the best Sherlock can muster up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You guys complain about bad CGI. Even though this is like a movie length, you guys seem to forget that this is still a tv show. The budget aren't going to be like blockbuster movies, so the CGI aren't going to be amazing. An average budget for a Sherlock episode is about 2.7 millions. In comparison, House of Cards is about 4.5 millions. Daredevil is about 4 millions and Games of Thrones is about 8 millions.
For most people, your room is often the safest place in the world. If she was lonely as a child, most likely she probably did spend most of her time in that room. You could also look at it as metaphorically, her room being her 'mind'. This whole time on the island Sherlock was looking at her as the villain, an enemy and when he was a kid, he was more obsessed with finding Redbeard that he didn't truly see the puzzle in her song. The song that she kept singing to him, it was her way of calling for help.
Sometimes there can be too much cheese.
lies
She didnt plan it in 5 minutes, you misheard. Chances are she probably planned this for a long time now. Sherlock said (paraphrasing) "She did this to us in 5 minutes." Meaning that in such a short amount of time, she managed to get them to this point where Sherlock, John and Mycroft are extremely stressed and emotional. In a short amount of time, she broke them.
Same thing could be said about people foolishly hoping for MollyxSherlock. He was never attracted to her, but then again his attraction is more different than most. The only person he feel any sort of attraction to is the Woman.
She wasn't his contigency plan like you think it was. It was more like she gave him a proposition. That if things were to go wrong, she would step in. So obviously when Sherlock defeated Moriarty on the top of that roof, and he killed himself. Moriarty was completely fine with that. As Eurussaid, Moriarty was more interested in causing trouble than being alive. So as long as there is some way of truly fucking up Sherlock, he wouldn't mind dying for it.
Eurus is clearly a demented person, a psychopath. Most people who are like that has some deep rooted personal issues. (obviously) So I don't see the problem with her revelation being what it is. It's not like most psychopath just wakes up one day and want to kill people or cause mayhem.
See immediately above for your first paragraph. People die all the time in Sherlock, emotional stuff happens all the time. Quite a few episodes ended on a happy note with some cheese. I don't know why this is out of the ordinary. Though I do agree that they seem to be in a hurry to wrap it up, making it a bit anticlimactic.
Mary loves John, so even in her death (or before her death) she knew how badly it would affect John. The only person that John is close to is Sherlock. She probably made those tapes either because she knew someone from her past was going to kill her or right after Sherlock told her that there is an assassin's coming after her. Either way, she knew that Sherlock would promise John that he would protect her and that if anything happens to her, John being emotional would blame Sherlock. So it makes sense the line "You have to save John Watson, by letting him save you."
She knew the fallout that would happen if she were to die that way, and that the only way to mend the relationship is to create that feeling that Sherlock was truly in danger, cause she knows that if John knew the danger was real. There was no way, John would not save him.
They actually did touch upon it in the episode. The governor said he lets several people talked to Eurus alone. Probably professionals to try and study her. The on the tape recording, it was revealed that even the governor did at some point. It would make sense that at some point she systematically infected key personnel inside the prison. The governor, the doctors, a guard here and there. She was outside the prison, all those moments with Sherlock and Watson. She had complete control the moment the boys step foot on the island. They walked into her trap.
Yeah, I love it. A lot of things went full circles.
You means, the scene at the end when you see Sherlock and Watson in the room and they were trying to put everything back together? (worst attempt ever)
I think that was AFTER they got back from the island, rescuing John, saving Eurus and all that. I don't think that scene was right after the explosion. After the explosion, we obviously got a small time skip to where Sherlock and John landed on the boat. Presumably they take a bit of time to recuperate and then headed straight to the island to confront Eurus. Which would explain why they didn't look visibly injured during that last scene.
He gave her a Christmas kiss on the cheek. That's probably the best Sherlock can muster up.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Oh, I understand this is BBC and they're working on a budget. But they made the choice to show John and Sherlock jumping out the window with bad CG. That's a creative decision that overreached and left us with a more ridiculous scene, after building up the tension for several minutes. You could have just showed a fake explosion from afar or done the window jump from the inside looking out. Less is more. This show has done that kinda thing before, where they overindulge and it ends up looking worse for it. You could have gotten the same effect (explosion and their fates being ambiguous) without any CG or even actual explosion. Heck, it could have just faded to white and then transitioned to the next scene.
GamingOblivion
Banned
bruh thats why you don't shoot a scene that requires cgi like that
i could have shot something better
I understand your point but it just seem like technical nitpicking. I thought the explosion was fine, but I can see why you would dislike it. I just re-watched it in 1080p (probably compressed to hell on BBC) I thought it look fine.
Maybe I just didn't really mind it. I thought the explosion transition was a nice touch, sure there are other ways to do it. But it wasn't even a note on my list of complaints about this episode.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Pretty much.
Also someone really needs to turn it into a gif because of how bad it looks. lol
If you don't have the budget to make it look good or at least competent, you change the scene/script.
The explosion looked like shit in the preview and it looked somehow even worse in the actual episode. And you don't get to handwaive it, since it's the capstone to a surprisingly tense scene and the first act as a whole.
The explosion looked like shit in the preview and it looked somehow even worse in the actual episode. And you don't get to handwaive it, since it's the capstone to a surprisingly tense scene and the first act as a whole.
GamingOblivion
Banned
That's not technical nitpicking, that's shooting within your budget.
After sleeping a bit over the final episode I would probably rank all the Sherlock episodes this way (with the last three in the list being the worst by quite a margin).
The Reichenbach Fall
A Scandal in Belgravia
A Study in Pink
His Last Vow
The Great Game
The Final Problem
The Lying Detective
The Sign Of Three
The Abominable Bride
The Hounds Of Baskerville
The Blind Banker
The Empty Hearse
The Six Thatchers
The Reichenbach Fall is still one of the best single episodes in any TV series ever for me (even though the resolution to the fall in S3 was lackluster). Can watch that one over and over again.
The Reichenbach Fall
A Scandal in Belgravia
A Study in Pink
His Last Vow
The Great Game
The Final Problem
The Lying Detective
The Sign Of Three
The Abominable Bride
The Hounds Of Baskerville
The Blind Banker
The Empty Hearse
The Six Thatchers
The Reichenbach Fall is still one of the best single episodes in any TV series ever for me (even though the resolution to the fall in S3 was lackluster). Can watch that one over and over again.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I don't think I liked this episode. I mean I was mildly entertained, but it was insultingly contrived and cheesy even by Sherlock standards.
- Super-genius who can brainwash anyone with a few words? Come on. This isn't manipulation or using years of brainwashing and conditioning, it's paranormal super-powers now. Sherlock isn't supposed to be sci-fi.
- The whole Cube/Saw/999/etc. thing can fuck off. It's been done before and it's usually lame and predictable.
- The fake-outs with Moriarty and the plane are annoying, even if I immediately suspected they were flashbacks. Then when they spoke on the phone with the little girl and showed the actual scenes of the girl on the plane I decided OK it's not a flashback... turns out it's still fake/metaphorical all along? Pfft. Outright lying to the audience isn't clever storytelling.
- The part with Molly... ugh. Also pretty convenient that Euros had no problem murdering the props, pardon, Guest Characters, even after Sherlock solves the conundrums, but suddenly she was faking the bomb in the Recurring Character's scenario. She could just have easily "lol you're so gullible" and set the bomb off anyway, since it's what she does, but of course they weren't going to kill Recurring Character (just make her really miserable).
- So the super-genius villain's motivation, all this time, was... "I'm so lonely I wanna play with my big bro"? Pfffffffft come on...
And the line about "good man" at the end was so cheesy too.
- Super-genius who can brainwash anyone with a few words? Come on. This isn't manipulation or using years of brainwashing and conditioning, it's paranormal super-powers now. Sherlock isn't supposed to be sci-fi.
- The whole Cube/Saw/999/etc. thing can fuck off. It's been done before and it's usually lame and predictable.
- The fake-outs with Moriarty and the plane are annoying, even if I immediately suspected they were flashbacks. Then when they spoke on the phone with the little girl and showed the actual scenes of the girl on the plane I decided OK it's not a flashback... turns out it's still fake/metaphorical all along? Pfft. Outright lying to the audience isn't clever storytelling.
- The part with Molly... ugh. Also pretty convenient that Euros had no problem murdering the props, pardon, Guest Characters, even after Sherlock solves the conundrums, but suddenly she was faking the bomb in the Recurring Character's scenario. She could just have easily "lol you're so gullible" and set the bomb off anyway, since it's what she does, but of course they weren't going to kill Recurring Character (just make her really miserable).
- So the super-genius villain's motivation, all this time, was... "I'm so lonely I wanna play with my big bro"? Pfffffffft come on...
And the line about "good man" at the end was so cheesy too.
Sadly, yes. Probably why it was so bad.
Anyone else got 999 vibes from this episode? Even the twist was similar.
Well let's not go nuts...
Hmm, fair enough then, I didn't remember that and it seemed kind of random sappiness. But I still think it came across as corny, they could have handled that better.
FlutterPuffs
Member
How did Watson got away from the psychiatrist that was about to shoot him in the previous episode?
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
She shot him with a tranquilizer dart for some reason.
But they did shoot within budget...
grand plan of luring them to the island. killing John right off the bat wouldn't be fun
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
That's a brilliant plan except for the grenade being sent via drone because...It doesn't add up when you step back. Non lethal force to attract their attention (dart and reveal to John). OK. Extremely lethal force when they were planning on seeking her out anyway. It's not like it was test either, the solution was to not move and then move really fast.
It's one aspect of the show that some people have complained about this season. It's more James Bond than Sherlock Holmes. I liked the scene overall, it had me on the edge of my seat. But what was the point in the narrative? It didn't give them a clue. We already knew she was dangerous. They were already motivated to seek her out. And it didn't accomplish anything like sideling a character. It "destroyed" 221B, I suppose.
yeah that was odd. unless she can really predict that Sherlock and the boys can get out in time, that nade was really weird. But then the Holmes siblings are weird.
Night Hunter
Banned
Of course they did. Is this a serious question? Afair Gatiss actually stated outright that it wouldn't happen, but they went with their little 'clues', convinced themselves that Gatiss was lying to throw them off or something and ran right into the queerbaiting trap. Again.
there was so many stupid and absurd things in that last episode
- using a drone to deliver a grenade that could have killed everyone
- a secret lair straight out of a James Bond movie
- Eurus taking over the base using her intelligence. The entire base. EVERY FUCKING PERSON.
- kidnapping the governer's wife
- installed a hidden camera in Molly's house then knowing she would be home at the right time to call her.
- kidnapped the three brothers and dangled them off a cliff right in front of the room they were in
- recorded a shitload of video of Moriarity doing stupid things. just in case. And then getting them to show on various TV screens without lifting her hands?
- building a fake room their familiy estate.
- locking Watson in the well and then filling it up with water, from a distance.
i guess she is a genius so she's capable of all this.
- using a drone to deliver a grenade that could have killed everyone
- a secret lair straight out of a James Bond movie
- Eurus taking over the base using her intelligence. The entire base. EVERY FUCKING PERSON.
- kidnapping the governer's wife
- installed a hidden camera in Molly's house then knowing she would be home at the right time to call her.
- kidnapped the three brothers and dangled them off a cliff right in front of the room they were in
- recorded a shitload of video of Moriarity doing stupid things. just in case. And then getting them to show on various TV screens without lifting her hands?
- building a fake room their familiy estate.
- locking Watson in the well and then filling it up with water, from a distance.
i guess she is a genius so she's capable of all this.
EarsOfASnake
Member
It's such a shame to see how the fantastically sculpted character drama of the first two series has devolved into navel-gazing tripe. The great parts of Sherlock weren't the stories, it was the interaction between Sherlock & John, Sherlock & Mycroft, Sherlock & Molly/Lestrade/Anderson/Mrs Hudson (the latter being non-existent this season). Wouldn't be sad if it didn't come back, should have quit while they were ahead.
This episode was very much like the Nolan Batman movies, where it's kinda gripping at first, albeit a bit long.
But then, if you ever stop to think about what's actually happening on screen, it all falls apart.
Edit: Thinking about it, Spectre may be a better comparison, with the whole family angle added to an already convoluted plot.
But then, if you ever stop to think about what's actually happening on screen, it all falls apart.
Edit: Thinking about it, Spectre may be a better comparison, with the whole family angle added to an already convoluted plot.
I actually really enjoyed the episode, though it paled in comparison to last week's masterful episode. I'm in agreement with everyone regarding that dodgy CGI explosion. The scene leading up to it was tense and well acted, then it all fell to shit when it showed them jumping out the window. It should have ended just as they leapt out. Other than that, the build up to the finale was great, though I felt it was somewhat obvious that there was no plane in danger. Am I the only one who felt that?
I mean clearly she had help, either from people she brainwashed or Moriarty people to do most of those things... I means.. do you really needed explained to you?
It's not like she waved her hands and the three brothers appeared over a cliff, nicely tied up for Sherlock.
it's probably was that easy for her.
I thought it was going to be the How You See Me 2 takeout.
I think this was easily the worst episode of the entire series. Not just the season, but the entire Sherlock series of the last years. People much smarter than myself are currently writing on Facebook how "this episode did for Sherlock what the first episode of Sherlock did for television" and I call bull.
Moffat fucked up in a similar fashion before. Remember Jekyll? Well, that followed the Sherlock formula, but went to crap much quicker.
All in all, the inconsistencies and stupid scifi plus Saw-esque puzzles really dragged everything down the drain. And yet it had so much promise. This episode also suffered from the carpet-pulling shittiness of Lucky Number Slevin. You know, how many carpets can the writer pull from under the viewer before things get completely idiotic.
Moffat fucked up in a similar fashion before. Remember Jekyll? Well, that followed the Sherlock formula, but went to crap much quicker.
All in all, the inconsistencies and stupid scifi plus Saw-esque puzzles really dragged everything down the drain. And yet it had so much promise. This episode also suffered from the carpet-pulling shittiness of Lucky Number Slevin. You know, how many carpets can the writer pull from under the viewer before things get completely idiotic.
Just watched that Molly Chhristmas Scene on YouTube again:
https://youtu.be/Kg6Qpbcmp1s
Wow. I think across the entire series Sherlock has gone through a lot of character development.
https://youtu.be/Kg6Qpbcmp1s
Wow. I think across the entire series Sherlock has gone through a lot of character development.
Her mindcontrolling the entire facility definitely needed some sort of explanation. It's not complicated, during Moriaty's trial they did it with one shot of a hotel room.
But as is, it's completely ludicrous.
Yeah I would have liked to know more about that too. But in the very first episode. We had a cabbie that could talk people into committing suicide.
So I suspense my disbelief. The governor did say that the doctor that Eurus brainwashed that he couldn't get her out of his head. So whatever she did, it probably planted a nagging feeling in the back of their mind to have to do what she told them to do. But yeah, I would have like that to be fleshed out some more.
Eurus having manipulated the warden into helping her escape would have been far more believable. I don't know why they didn't keep it simple.
Spieler Eins
Member
2-1 is still obviously the best and would be the best episode of anything put on TV if it wasn't for the Deus Ex Machina at the end (which simply doesn't stop bothering me on any rewatch).
Still, this episode was probably the best attempt I can remember at "huaminizing" Sherlock since then. Last week could have been interesting, until it turns out oh all of his delusions and meltdowns he just planned 2 weeks ago anyway, or something. In this episode he was finally forced to confront certain situations with Mycroft and Molly(?).
The "smartness" in this show has been a super power for a long time.
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