NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I was waiting for this when you quoted the 'Ghosts we make ourselves.' line.
I suspected but didn't think they'd actually do it.
Moriarty's the bride. Of course.
Uh, did a zombie just jump on Holmes
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Sherlock: The Abominable Bride |OT| 19th Century, My Dear Watson
- Thread starter WadiumArcadium
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I suspected but didn't think they'd actually do it.
Moriarty's the bride. Of course.
Uh, did a zombie just jump on Holmes
I thought it was OK, better than the dog one, worse than the finales (or Irene's episode, I adore that one), it had very high highs and very low lows overall.
The reality jumping didn't click for me, maybe that's why I felt it was just an OK episode even if the interactions between Sherlock and well, everyone, were stellar.
The reality jumping didn't click for me, maybe that's why I felt it was just an OK episode even if the interactions between Sherlock and well, everyone, were stellar.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
That was a great episode. Hope there are more drug addled Victorian fever dreams next holiday season
I was watching this half asleep, can someone please tell me what the connection between the two relevant cases from the episode is? I don't get it.
The conclusion of all is that no one can survive a shot in the head. And that Mycroft is a feminist.
bearythebear
Member
Sherlock is a frustrating show. Getting a special that had nothing to do with the bigger narrative arc would have been so great.
Of course Steven Moffat can't help be "clever" or whatever....
Of course Steven Moffat can't help be "clever" or whatever....
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Adam Scott was really giving it his all in that last scene.
I AM YOUR WEAKNESS
I AM THERE WHEN YOU FAIL
MCU Eddie Brock pls.
I AM YOUR WEAKNESS
I AM THERE WHEN YOU FAIL
MCU Eddie Brock pls.
Both cases involved someone shooting themselves in the mouth and then seemingly rising from the dead.
The conclusion of all is that no one can survive a shot in the head. And that Mycroft is a feminist.
Ok fair enough, thought it might have gone deeper than that, thanks.
The titular mystery is placed in the background to tidy things up for the next series, which feels like a contradiction to the central message of the mystery ()gender inequality and the lack of representation for the women mistreated
There are some hilarious snarky responses on Twitter to the episode's take on gender politics, even from those who liked the episode.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
It is pretty clear that the episode was entirely sympathetic with the suffragette movement, I mean Watson being a sexist is roundly mocked. Plus they explicitly say that it is best that the movement gets its way
I liked it, though the present-day connection probably weren't necessary. I'd have preferred a stand-alone episode as well
as for the mystery, it's clear that the ghost was a mirror-trick and the wife probably committed the murder. The delayed suicide was pretty clever, I didn't think of that. Now, let's just hope that we get an actual conclusion this time, not another locked-door mystery without an explanation
oh, and I'm still going to assume Moriaty is some kind of computer program/digital trickery
as for the mystery, it's clear that the ghost was a mirror-trick and the wife probably committed the murder. The delayed suicide was pretty clever, I didn't think of that. Now, let's just hope that we get an actual conclusion this time, not another locked-door mystery without an explanation
oh, and I'm still going to assume Moriaty is some kind of computer program/digital trickery
Wow Sherlock took its time but it didn't disappoint. The mystery was nice but a little bit disappointing, what I really liked was Sherlock's
and how his family react to it. Freeman deserves an award for his performance here. It was a great return for the series and I can't wait for what comes next!
drug abuse
oh, and I'm still going to assume Moriaty is some kind of computer program/digital trickery
Probably, but I would like it to be a different bad guy doing things now instead of Moriarty having predicted all the movements of the british intelligence and having set up all the computer thingies before dying. I'm really not a fan of trickery after death, like in the Saw series.
Yep.It is pretty clear that the episode was entirely sympathetic with the suffragette movement, I mean Watson being a sexist is roundly mocked. Plus they explicitly say that it is best that the movement gets its way
Although I do like how it played things a certain way that manages to get people saying different things depending on where their biases lie. It was a bit of a Gone Girl situation with a scenario where both feminists and misogynists find themselves feeling justified, which is something I find delightful from a writing standpoint.
Adam Scott was really giving it his all in that last scene.
I AM YOUR WEAKNESS
I AM THERE WHEN YOU FAIL
MCU Eddie Brock pls.
Andrew Scott. And we're in luck, The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses gives us Benedict versus Andrew, I hope.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Andrew Scott. And we're in luck, The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses gives us Benedict versus Andrew, I hope.
Oh man is that actually happening? The first Hollow Crown was delightful
I want it to be as simple as a twinI thought the "point" of this case was to show that moriarity was actually dead, and that a "secret society" is taking on his work. Just as the woman's group was.
That seemed pretty clear to me ...but maybe I'm missing something
Yep.
Although I do like how it played things a certain way that manages to get people saying different things depending on where their biases lie. It was a bit of a Gone Girl situation with a scenario where both feminists and misogynists find themselves feeling justified, which is something I find delightful from a writing standpoint.
The Rorschach test that the writing pulls off is fairly fantastic. On its face it is obviously very pro-suffragette (with both Mary / Lestrade interaction and Mycroft outright saying that they are right) - but I'm enjoying watching both sides work themselves into a froth over either not being "good enough" or really a "warning about feminism".
Really liked the episode - liked the tie in, liked the implication that Moriarty is actually dead and we don't have any crazy shenanigans bringing him back to life.
Glass Shark
Banned
I feel like the show is trying to beat us over the head with the fact that Moriarty is definitely really super dead, but I still don't want to believe it.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Noticed on a rewatch the detail of when Watson is asking Holmes what made him the way he is, he's interrupted by a dog barking and then says "Redbeard?"
Also, this Reddit theory is pretty interesting:
Also, this Reddit theory is pretty interesting:
Ok, so there is actually a lot more to this episode than what most people seem to be perceiving.
It wasn't just a bit of fun with an unexpected, but ultimately inconsequential tie-in to the modern series.
Neither was it spending 90 minutes to get from "What? Moriarty's back?" to "He's dead, Jim."
What we have is a carefully thought out, significant piece of canon that is going to be the driver for the next season. The best bit? The Moff has unambiguously, if indirectly, told us exactly what's going on, rather than his usual tactic of giving us just enough to go crazy with fan theories. You do need to pay attention though to pick up the clues he's left us.
So let's look at those clues:
The virus in the data?
There had been hints earlier, but this anachronism is point at which we're told "this isn't real." But why this phrase specifically? Mycroft could have used any number of modern phrases that wouldn't make sense in a Victorian context. Foreshadowing...
Moriarty's dead! / Not in your mind. I'll never be dead there. You once called your brain a hard drive. Well say hello to the virus.
Ah that's what Mycroft meant. There's a virus in Sherlock's brain and it's name is Moriarty.
You have a magnificent brain Moriarty [...] the equal of my own.
Double meaning here: Sherlock and Moriarty are equals in the sense that they are both incredibly intelligent sociopaths. But moreso, their brains are literally equal: they're the same brain.
Miss me?
This is the line that gave me shivers. Moriarty's words from Sherlock's mouth. This is the line that ties all the clues together.
Putting it all together: Moriarty is definitely dead. We're told this repeatedly. He shot himself in the head, no tricks, his magnificent brain exited the stage via the gaping hole in the back of his skull. Sherlock's brain, however, is so powerful it is capable of running an accurate simulation of Victorian London complete with all the people therein - including Moriarty. That's the virus. He's literally got into Sherlock's head and is "alive" as a simulation that can't be turned off. Sherlock has deduced this, which is why he knows what Moriarty will do next and why his first words on waking up were "miss me?"
I believe this conclusion is inescapable.
The following is conjecture as, unless I've missed something (which is entirely probable), we don't have enough information to draw definite conclusions.
Moriarty's plan
It's possible that the events of the Reichenbach Fall were designed by Moriarty to get into Sherlock's head. We know that Sherlock's brain is powerful enough to simulate Moriarty; as they are intellectual equals it stands to reason the inverse must be true. Moriarty could have used this to devise a plan so precisely that he was able to manipulate Sherlock's brain into recreating him. No wonder he didn't mind dying. This may be farfetched however; a simpler explanation is that Sherlock needs his nemesis in the same way that he needs drugs. He's an addict.
When can Moriarty come out to play?
Moriarty and Sherlock, we're told, are equally brainy. However in order to simulate Moriarty's brain, Sherlock's would need to be more powerful. How do we resolve this contradiction? The answer is drugs. Sherlock uses drugs to overclock his brain, which provides the additional power needed to run the Moriarty virus.
Redbeard
Sherlock's dog who was put down when he was a child. Magnussen had him listed as a pressure point and Mycroft has the name in capitals with a box drawn around it in his notebook (which on the same page contains some matrices and equations, the significance of which escapes me - probably meaningless). When Watson and Sherlock are staking out the Carmichael manor, John asks "what made you like this?" Sherlock tries to claim nothing did, but is interrupted by the sound of a dog barking, which prompts him to ask "Redbeard?"
Theories: Redbeard's death was so traumatic to Sherlock (why?) that it triggered his downward spiral into drug addiction. Mycroft has also deduced that Sherlock's brain is running Moriarty v2.0 and that, like Redbeard, his brother will have to be put down.
Moffat self insert
The Moff periodically comes under fire for not being able to write women and has even been accused of misogeny. The scene in the church which is spliced with all the women Sherlock has wronged is Moffat holding his hands up and saying "sorry ladies, I'll try to do better." The reaction? Angry feminists. Obviously.
edit: forgot to add this quite major one to the list
Fat Mycroft
Obviously there is a reason why Sherlock's brain made Mycroft morbidly obese. We know he dislikes his brother so it's possible this is simply for his own amusement, however I discount this theory out of hand as it's not like Sherlock to waste brainpower on such frivolity. That leaves two possibilities: Sherlock has deduced that Mycroft is dying. This is substantiated by his "you've put on weight" line to his brother when he wakes up, and by the "take care of him" from Mycroft to Watson as they disembark the plane. Alternatively Fat Mycroft killing himself through his addiction to eating could be a (possibly subconscious) surrogate for Sherlock himself realising that his drug use is killing him. Of these, I favour the latter.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
I loved this episode and have been critical of the series quite often. Especially the wedding one which I thought was dreadful. Maybe because I'm in love with jeremy brett, but not just that, everything worked. The tale within a tale (within a tale) even the slightly pandering fanservice worked because it was so smartly inserted. Even fat mycroft worked because of the bet and because I think Sherlock knows subconsciously his brother is dying. This might be my favorite episode of the whole run. Clever, funny, good mystery and all well executed. Yay.
Rimon-hanit
Member
That reddit theory seems very fer fetched doesn't really fit the tone of the show, also fat Mycroft is probably just a book reference, I know I was a bit disappointed he wasn't fat when we first saw him.
I mean look at this description:
I mean look at this description:
...he has no ambition and no energy. He will not even go out of his way to verify his own solutions, and would rather be considered wrong than take the trouble to prove himself right...
Mycroft Holmes was a much larger and stouter man than Sherlock. His body was absolutely corpulent
I liked it. I would have prefered it just being a standalone episode just for fun but I'm fine with how this turned out too.
I wish they would tone down the comedic tone a little bit. IIRC S1 and S2 were not as obviously tounge in cheek. While they still were funny at times it felt a little more subtle.
I wish they would tone down the comedic tone a little bit. IIRC S1 and S2 were not as obviously tounge in cheek. While they still were funny at times it felt a little more subtle.
Night Hunter
Banned
Didn't really like the episode, would have prefered a standalone. A friend of mine loved it though. Something about a Johnlock conspiracy. First time I heard about it, but after hearing the word Tumblr I politely excused myself and went on my way.
The Awesomest
Member
Wait, so this wasn't season 4? Do we have word of when that'll start?
Technosteve
Banned
Gatiss' transformation to a heavier Mycroft (more along the lines of Doyle's description) caught me off-guard. Such a contrast to the health-conscious modern version. But that said, I didn't think Doyle's depiction of Mycroft is that "heavy".
I like the little attention to detail with Mycroft's appearance, not just with the fat suit prosthesis, but also with the yellowing eyes and arcus senilis. At least, I could see it.
I thought it was an omage to gold member
GustyGardens
Banned
I haven't finished it, but I was glad to see that the introduction was almost word-for-word and shot-for-shot the introduction found in a Study in Scarlet. I'll try to finish it soon, as I'm anxious to see if there are any other references to the books thrown in.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Fatcroft legit shocked me.
I loved this episode and have been critical of the series quite often. Especially the wedding one which I thought was dreadful. Maybe because I'm in love with jeremy brett, but not just that, everything worked. The tale within a tale (within a tale) even the slightly pandering fanservice worked because it was so smartly inserted. Even fat mycroft worked because of the bet and because I think Sherlock knows subconsciously his brother is dying. This might be my favorite episode of the whole run. Clever, funny, good mystery and all well executed. Yay.
Opposite reaction for me as a Brett fan after watching it last night. First impression is that it's bloated, indulgent, devoid of charm or warmth, too clever for its own good, and chock-full of mansplaining.
I really love the modern interpretation premise of Sherlock, I love the casting, but I realize that it's not a show that works for me anymore.
Opposite reaction for me as a Brett fan after watching it last night. First impression is that it's bloated, indulgent, devoid of charm or warmth, too clever for its own good, and chock-full of mansplaining.
I really love the modern interpretation premise of Sherlock, I love the casting, but I realize that it's not a show that works for me anymore.
This, word for word.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Wait, so this wasn't season 4? Do we have word of when that'll start?
Cumberbatch literally doesn't stop working. He was doing theater in London, had one day off and then went off to film Doctor Strange, which he'll be doing until about April. Which will then be followed by Sherlock, and then he's got another film called Flying Horse to do.
Sherlock will be filmed in Spring, probably be done for January next year.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Opposite reaction for me as a Brett fan after watching it last night. First impression is that it's bloated, indulgent, devoid of charm or warmth, too clever for its own good, and chock-full of mansplaining.
I really love the modern interpretation premise of Sherlock, I love the casting, but I realize that it's not a show that works for me anymore.
Man, that's weird. Just that I expected to feel that way and don't. Certainly there are things I still really don't like (never got used to Moriarty's overacting or the feeling that Mary is completely forced) but for whatever reason it worked for me where last season didn't.
Discotheque
Banned
Opposite reaction for me as a Brett fan after watching it last night. First impression is that it's bloated, indulgent, devoid of charm or warmth, too clever for its own good, and chock-full of mansplaining.
I really love the modern interpretation premise of Sherlock, I love the casting, but I realize that it's not a show that works for me anymore.
Agreed with this. It's fun but it seems wholly devoid of what makes Sherlock Holmes great
It seems like the mystery and intrigue has been lost from this series and now it's just concerned with being so stylistic
Still I like the two leads as holmes/Watson, keeps me watching
Wowfunhappy
Member
Just saw this in theaters with my sister.
Wow. Absolutely loved it. Fantastic episode. Loved how they tied it in with present day as well.
I think that's why they don't do the reveal until towards the end. The mystery is mostly wrapped up at that point.
Wow. Absolutely loved it. Fantastic episode. Loved how they tied it in with present day as well.
When it's revealed to not be "really" the story it makes me kind of stop caring
I think that's why they don't do the reveal until towards the end. The mystery is mostly wrapped up at that point.
I think that's why they don't do the reveal until towards the end. The mystery is mostly wrapped up at that point.
They tipped their hand at the 20-minute mark, with Sherlock's "He", not "She" (after describing the current situation in a way that fit modern-Moriarty), with Watson and the BGM making a big deal out of the slip, and then Sherlock snapping out of a trance.
From that point on, you have to question the reality of the entire thing, and then some of the more-cryptic clues start dropping, and it gets a bit tricky to stay focused on the upfront mystery, even though they're related.
Still fun, IMO.
I had fun, but I agree that ever since Moriarty died, the show has been sort of an aimless mess.
It still didn't disappoint me as much as the s3 resolution, probably because I had expectations in check.
The show has a good energy though, and that makes it fun to watch, even if the dumb shit sometimes gets too far.
It still didn't disappoint me as much as the s3 resolution, probably because I had expectations in check.
The show has a good energy though, and that makes it fun to watch, even if the dumb shit sometimes gets too far.
bodyofanamerican
Member
I had fun, but I agree that ever since Moriarty died, the show has been sort of an aimless mess.
It still didn't disappoint me as much as the s3 resolution, probably because I had expectations in check.
The show has a good energy though, and that makes it fun to watch, even if the dumb shit sometimes gets too far.
Definitely some truth to that, though I'd argue Johnlock is much more of an emotional lodestar to the show than any antagonist.
I really hope they kind of flip-flop the dynamic in Series 4, where instead of John being the one who's always there for Sherlock, something happens to John (HMMM WONDER WHAT) that requires Sherlock to be the one who's there for him, and "saves" him.
It's funny to me that they came back to Jim at the end of Season 3 in the mind palace and Miss Me vid vs. a clean break with the character, and I do worry that Andrew Scott's performance is a bit of a crutch for them (though I cannot get enough of him), but since his fate has been somewhat answered the mystery in the special, I'm curious to see what they do when they finally kick the Moriarty crutch (as a character) out from under the show and see where it goes.
Septimus Prime
Member
Watched this last night.
I don't know. I feel like Moriarty is kind tame, now that we've seen Magnussen. The former might be Sherlock's equal, but the latter is far superior to him and even smarter than Mycroft. I really feel like series 3 wasted a ton of potential by losing that character.
I don't know. I feel like Moriarty is kind tame, now that we've seen Magnussen. The former might be Sherlock's equal, but the latter is far superior to him and even smarter than Mycroft. I really feel like series 3 wasted a ton of potential by losing that character.
Watched this last night.
I don't know. I feel like Moriarty is kind tame, now that we've seen Magnussen. The former might be Sherlock's equal, but the latter is far superior to him and even smarter than Mycroft. I really feel like series 3 wasted a ton of potential by losing that character.
wut?
i don't even remember anything about that magnussen character other than sherlock killed him, totally forgettable imo
wut?
i don't even remember anything about that magnussen character other than sherlock killed him, totally forgettable imo
Magnussen seemed creepy and very dangerous, but Moriarty was entertaining on top of that. I was very glad to see him in TAB.
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