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Sherlock: The Abominable Bride |OT| 19th Century, My Dear Watson

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M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Coffee Dog said:
I liked it until it was rudely interrupted by modern Sherlock an hour in.

After that point I found it hard to invest in either story - the Victorian story lost a lot of impact once it was revealed to be a dream, and then it disappeared. The modern plot was too rushed to tell much of a story, and definitely wasn't worth aborting the previous hour.

Frankly, I think it would have much preferred subtle hints in the background with a modern times reveal in the end, or have it be a 100% Victorian spinoff episode. The structure of the episode went to complete shit after the reveal and needed to be handled differently.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with this completely. When it's revealed to not be "really" the story it makes me kind of stop caring.

One of the reasons I hate the AssCreed animus stuff so much too.
 
Z

zsynqx

Member
Morrigan Stark said:
Yeah, I agree with this completely. When it's revealed to not be "really" the story it makes me kind of stop caring.

One of the reasons I hate the AssCreed animus stuff so much too.
Click to expand...

I think it would have worked better if there was some urgency to solve the crime in the past, like he had 24 hours or whatever. Sort of the plot to Inception. :p
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Loved it. I'm one of those who loved every episode of this show so far, so take that as you will.
 
N

nib95

Banned
I enjoyed it, but was definitely somewhat disappointed at the same time. Not the best start, and not really up to the quality of some previous episodes. The overall pacing and narrative just seemed a bit too erratic and convoluted for my tastes. Still, I'm interested to see where the next one goes.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Loved it. But it's gonna be a long wait until Series 4. I should do a rewatch.
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
Dammit, my DVR cut off the very end cause I'm dumb and didn't set the record correctly. I got present day Sherlock saying he knows what dead Moriarty is gonna do next, then the fade out and credit music and fake ending, before going back to old Watson and Sherlock commiserating over pipes. Then Sherlock opens his mouth and the recording stops.

What did I miss?
 
H

Hieberrr

Member
I'm probably one of the few who thought this was an awful episode. The explanation was a cop out and the whole trip was... confusing to say the least. I'm still not entirely sure how it related to Moriarty
unless the whole point was the prove that it's a bigger group behind it all
.
 
S

Salsa

Member
just watched it

it was really good, tho it didnt really need to do much cause you always miss these characters so much

loved the amount
of unexpected canon
tho
 
D

DIRTY-D

Member
So my Step-Father stayed with us for the Holidays and he is a huge Sherlock Holmes fan. To get us ready for The Abominable Bride episode we decided to watch a couple of Sherlock movies to kill some time before hand.

We watched Mr. Holmes and thought it was a great movie that kept us entertained with a different type of pace than we were used too, and made me happy it showed us Holmes at the end of his career.
MV5BMTg5MjE0Njk0MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNTgwMjQ4NTE@._V1__SX1857_SY901_.jpg


One scene had Sherlock go to a day-time matinee of a Sherlock Holmes movie to see how far Hollywood had evolved the character and pushed him into sort of satire of how the real Holmes lived his life.

During this scene with the real Sherlock watching the Sherlock Holmes in the movie....I noticed the actor playing Sherlock looked familiar....but I could place a name with him.

Later I soon forgot about the scene until I went on HULU and found the Steven Speilberg movie "Young Sherlock Holmes".


BAM!!! it hit me...Holy fucking shit. The guy in the movie that was playing the matinee version of Sherlock Holmes was the same fucking actor. Nicholas Rowe. MIND BLOWN!

MV5BMjA0NjMyMTg4NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMDIwNTAwMQ@@._V1__SX1857_SY901_.jpg
 
Meus Renaissance

Meus Renaissance

Member
I feel the comedic focus takes you out of the story and characters. Holmes' wit is in itself often funny enough, why do the writers feel the need to turn the entire plot into a comedy? Can we not have a serious episode for once?
 
J

Jabronium

Member
Well, put me in the "meh" camp. Found myself saying "We waited 2 years for that?" when it was all said and done. Feel like it would've been better as either a standalone or actually moving the modern plot forward instead of trying to do both and (imo, of course) being subpar as a result.

Not to say it didn't have its positives, especially
Moriarty
. Always a treat. I'm still looking forward to season 4, but I guess I was expecting too much out of this.
 
M

mandiller

Member
I thought the episode was terrible. Nothing was concluded and now we have to wait another few years for season 4 to come out. Can't the writers just go back to making each episode self-contained and just about the thrill of the crime and solving it? Why does it have to make the overarching plot of 'ooooh Moriarty is behind everything!' the focus. Just make the crime and the solving of it the focus.

I was very excited to have a one-off episode set in the 19th century that had no links to any of the other episodes. It would just be Sherlock and Watson solving a crime in an interesting setting. And instead it's some back and forth past/modern day rubbish setting up for Season 4.
 
R

Rimon-hanit

Member
I loved how silly this episode was,
I wonder if the Mycroft trying to eat himself to death joke was a response to some criticism about the modern interpretation not being fat.

They also had a lot more clues then usual for solving the mystery, disappointed I didn't solved it by the time Mycroft made is comment/Watson guessed
 
K

Kathian

Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
I feel the comedic focus takes you out of the story and characters. Holmes' wit is in itself often funny enough, why do the writers feel the need to turn the entire plot into a comedy? Can we not have a serious episode for once?
Click to expand...

We've only had two comedy episodes in the whole series.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
jedivulcan said:
It was a nice bit of imagery and I thought it played with some earlier dialog from
Moriarty
asking Holmes if he takes his illustrator with him. Regardless, thought the waterfall was a nice touch and glad they took the opportunity to fit it into the special.
Click to expand...

I thought so too. They had a similar scene in the Sherlock movie.

What are everyone's thoughts on Mycroft being so overweight in the dream? Odd that Sherlock would view him in such a way...
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
Random reference that I enjoyed:

Shortly after the "Sherlock" opening, the camera focuses on the "Baker Street" street sign, and pans down to the street. This shot, with the accompanying music, is a direct reference to the opening of The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes TV series (from 1984, starring Jeremy Brett).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34sPW1azwOo


Also, I suspect that "It's never twins" was a House MD reference, since House was based on Holmes.
 
Z

zorlaczerohero

Banned
Cheerilee said:
Because
in the back of his mind, Sherlock was aware of one unsolved case where a woman shot herself in the head and conclusively died (she got an autopsy and everything), and yet she conclusively rose from the grave to kill someone (personally ID'd by her husband, with information only she would know), before returning to her grave (100% dead), and popping up occasionally to kill others (which could be dismissed as copycat crimes, if only the original crime didn't defy the laws of nature). He knows that's impossible, but he doesn't have an answer for how she did it.

Then Moriarty shot himself in the head, and now apparently rose from the grave. Sherlock knows Moriarty can't do that, but... Sherlock faked his own death on that same day with The Fall. And Moriarty is Sherlock's equal. Does Moriarty know something Sherlock doesn't? Does Moriarty know how the woman did it? Did Sherlock and Moriarty both fake their own deaths, and Sherlock was simply too slow to see Moriarty's trick?

Moriarty has literally gotten inside Sherlock's head.
Click to expand...

That's just as I saw it. Sherlock looked back at the one case where this happened before to examine all avenues, he came to the conclusion that the face we know as Moriaty is indeed dead.
But then as we all know, the first rule is; the Doctor Moffat lies.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
tomtom94 said:
This. It's compounded by the fact that the conclusion to the mystery and 'the war that we must lose' is cut off to tie into the season 4 narrative so we don't get a proper conclusion for that either.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I'd say that's my biggest gripe with the episode.

I will say this though: The fact that Watson is so integral to Holmes that he becomes the main advantage he has against Moriarty was a great touch.
 
Risible

Risible

Member
I don't like how Mary is suddenly a super spy/super hacker. She has better intel and access than Mycroft? What? We're going to find out her middle name is Susan. :)
 
D

daevv

Member
I made the mistake of thinking this was a stand alone Christmas special or episode and got my wife to watch it with me. She had never seen the show and we were gonna start at the beginning this month. Thinking it was stand alone I thought it would be fun to start here. I didn't say anything during the episode as a lot of things we're spoiled but I think we will wait awhile before starting series 1.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Risible said:
I don't like how Mary is suddenly a super spy/super hacker. She has better intel and access than Mycroft? What? We're going to find out her middle name is Susan. :)
Click to expand...

Or maybe she wasn' using uber hacking skills and just found all the data using Google :p
 
M

Manmademan

Member
tomtom94 said:
This. It's compounded by the fact that the conclusion to the mystery and 'the war that we must lose' is cut off to tie into the season 4 narrative so we don't get a proper conclusion for that either.
Click to expand...

eh? both of those things are resolved. I thought the episode was pretty clear about it.
 
Q

Qvoth

Member
finally watched this, man i miss them so much :<
bit of shame that moriarty situation is basically confirmed
still see plenty of the character in season 4 though :p
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Risible said:
I don't like how Mary is suddenly a super spy/super hacker. She has better intel and access than Mycroft? What? We're going to find out her middle name is Susan. :)
Click to expand...

I always laugh when the show tells us Mycroft is so much smarter than Sherlock. Between Irene Adler and Moriarty...
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Cheerilee said:
Random reference that I enjoyed:

Shortly after the "Sherlock" opening, the camera focuses on the "Baker Street" street sign, and pans down to the street. This shot, with the accompanying music, is a direct reference to the opening of The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes TV series (from 1984, starring Jeremy Brett).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34sPW1azwOo


Also, I suspect that "It's never twins" was a House MD reference, since House was based on Holmes.
Click to expand...

It definitely was. I got major House vibes from this episode. It reminded me a lot of some of the drug episodes of that programme. I'm thinking the Carmen Elektra, three cases one in particular. What a great programme that was.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
I wish they had kept this as a fun, "normal" period piece. The mind palace, dream within a dream, modern setting, "or is it???" etc. stuff just ruined it for me. Too up it's own arse.
 
B

Blader

Member
I quite liked it and thought it was a lot of fun, though I also would've been fine with a straight period piece episode. I also agree with those who say it's frustrating that we never get any kind of pay-off for the story -- since the whole point of the Victorian case is for Sherlock to figure out how Moriarty is back in the present, which he does figure out, but we're not let in on what that explanation actually is yet. But at the same time it didn't actually hamper my enjoyment of the episode anyway.

Jabronium said:
Well, put me in the "meh" camp. Found myself saying "We waited 2 years for that?" when it was all said and done.
Click to expand...

Probably better not to look at it like it. It's not like they spend two years working on this. It's a side project for everyone, and the reason it comes out so infrequently is because of everyone's busy schedules.

mandiller said:
I thought the episode was terrible. Nothing was concluded and now we have to wait another few years for season 4 to come out.
Click to expand...

S4 will be out next year.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
Jabronium said:
Well, put me in the "meh" camp. Found myself saying "We waited 2 years for that?" when it was all said and done. Feel like it would've been better as either a standalone or actually moving the modern plot forward instead of trying to do both and (imo, of course) being subpar as a result.

Not to say it didn't have its positives, especially
Moriarty
. Always a treat. I'm still looking forward to season 4, but I guess I was expecting too much out of this.
Click to expand...

We have to sacrifice Sherlock for Dr. Strange and I'm okay with that.
 
L

Lucian Cat

Kissed a mod for a tag; liked it
daevv said:
I made the mistake of thinking this was a stand alone Christmas special or episode and got my wife to watch it with me. She had never seen the show and we were gonna start at the beginning this month. Thinking it was stand alone I thought it would be fun to start here. I didn't say anything during the episode as a lot of things we're spoiled but I think we will wait awhile before starting series 1.
Click to expand...
Yeah I took my other half who had only seen s1. Also assumed it would be a stand alone episode. As soon as we had the recap at the start I kept apologising lol
 
K

Krev

Unconfirmed Member
Crab said:
It makes sense that you can't see him solve the present problem, though - you don't see him solve the past problem. As dream-Moriarty says, it's just too neat, too easy; and Sherlock knows this - in his dream he digs to find the second body and it isn't there, and this is important because we know Moriarty's body was never found either. We don't know the secret of the Abominable Bride yet because she clearly holds the secret to Moriarty, too. I guess if you just wanted a standalone episode, that would be disappointing; but it sets up a structural question for the series to pursue magnificently.
Click to expand...
Now watch the Abominable Bride mystery never appear in the series again.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I enjoyed it. Definitely not what I expected, but I think that was where the strengths of the special lie.
 
B

B33

Banned
I love parts of this special, but by and large feel it's middling. The problem is that it feels like two parts were haphazardly fused with spackle on top to mask that they don't align.

It has sharp dialogue, beautiful set design, compelling camerawork, and great performances.

I would have preferred all of these things within a self-contained narrative.

What's the point of The Abominable Bride mystery?
To allow Sherlock to experience the revelation that Moriary is truly dead and his supposed return is a conspiracy.
Why do we need an entire episode dedicated to that? The titular mystery is placed in the background to tidy things up for the next series, which feels like a contradiction to the central message of the mystery (
gender inequality and the lack of representation for the women mistreated
).

The best part of the special is the dynamic between Victorian Holmes and Watson.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
I'm watching the special right now.

Molly has a mustache.

Martin's "secret twin" lines were hilarious.

The Abominable Bride could be Moriarty's crazy sister, hahaha.

Watson's maid don't give a fuuuuuuck.

This sign language but was glorious and hooooooly fuuuuuuck FAT MYCROFT OH MY GOD HOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT

Watson's wife looks visibly older than last season. Hasn't been that long.

"Ghosts we make for ourselves"

Too bad they didn't give Moriarty a cool Victorian mustache.
 
A

Auron_Kale

Member
Enjoyed it but I'm looking forward to seeing this in the theater.

Still not sure where I would rank this overall out of all the episodes so far.
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
WHAT THE HELL I NEEDED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE ABOMINABLE BRIDE. WE DIDN'T NEED TO WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD YET.

OH MY GOD, SHERLOCK WAS HIGH

WHAT THE FUCK

WE NEED TO GO BACK. KATE, WE NEED TO GO BACK.
 
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