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The OFFICIAL Spider-Man® 2 THREAD. REVIEWS. ALL SPIDEY-RELATED EVENTS. EVERYTHING.
- Thread starter Willco
- Start date
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Sorry if this is redundant, I'm trying to avoid spoilers until I see it this weekend, but Box Office Report is forecasting a $200 million 6 day weekend:
http://www.boxofficereport.com/wbon/forecast.shtml
http://www.boxofficereport.com/wbon/forecast.shtml
Littleberu
Banned
Ghost said:
Actually, it could show Harry with some new goblin gears, not wanting to repeat the same mistake his father did. Maybe a new wing, and some new more powerful bombs.
I could see Spiderman fighting 2 enemy at the same time, enemies that doesn't know each other anyway.
I still think The Sandman could make a good fourth movie vilain. After Pete and M-J wedding. Like in the tv cartoon.
I could see Spiderman fighting 2 enemy at the same time, enemies that doesn't know each other anyway.
I still think The Sandman could make a good fourth movie vilain. After Pete and M-J wedding. Like in the tv cartoon.
I was disappointed, particularly after all this "It's like Empire Strikes Back!" hype. It's really just Spider-Man TWO: More of the Same. If you enjoyed the first one, there's no reason not to like this one as well.
The first movie is still superior thanks to the fun and light-hearted opening. The sequel just has too much boring brooding. The repetition of the "family member makes ironic speech about being a hero despite not knowing Parker's identity" motif seemed silly and tiresome. It seemed like there were only 2 major action sequences, and he stops being Spider Man for soooooooo long. The second half of the first movie wasn't that great, but it wasn't as dull as the middle of this one.
My impulse is to wait for the DVD, and just fast-forward it to the cooler action sequences and such. As with the first one, the coolest bits are just the webslinging and acrobatics around the city, and you've really gotta see that on a big screen to get any effect. CG brawlin' really doesn't do it for me...
Random housekeeping:
Errr, putting a nuclear reaction underwater stops it from happening?
Does Peter take off his mask at the drop of a hat in the comic books?
Sometimes Doc Octopus can be heard from miles away, sometimes he sneaks up on you?
The first movie is still superior thanks to the fun and light-hearted opening. The sequel just has too much boring brooding. The repetition of the "family member makes ironic speech about being a hero despite not knowing Parker's identity" motif seemed silly and tiresome. It seemed like there were only 2 major action sequences, and he stops being Spider Man for soooooooo long. The second half of the first movie wasn't that great, but it wasn't as dull as the middle of this one.
My impulse is to wait for the DVD, and just fast-forward it to the cooler action sequences and such. As with the first one, the coolest bits are just the webslinging and acrobatics around the city, and you've really gotta see that on a big screen to get any effect. CG brawlin' really doesn't do it for me...
Random housekeeping:
Errr, putting a nuclear reaction underwater stops it from happening?
Does Peter take off his mask at the drop of a hat in the comic books?
Sometimes Doc Octopus can be heard from miles away, sometimes he sneaks up on you?
--Errr, putting a nuclear reaction underwater stops it from happening?
More than likely not, but the main point of the fusion was the heat generated. With the water, it would act as a coolant. Not entirely feasible, but passable.
--Does Peter take off his mask at the drop of a hat in the comic books?
In Ultimate Spider-Man, yeah. Everyone in the world knows who he is, haha.
--Sometimes Doc Octopus can be heard from miles away, sometimes he sneaks up on you?
That's probably mostly part of his wanting to scare people beforehand. The tentacles themselves didn't have much weight, but they had force enough to bust shit up and make the mass enough to make the booming introduction to a fight. Otherwise, we could just blame the Vorhees Unreality Engine, which allows slow/lumbering/loud things to sneak up on people.
ALSO: Spider-Man 2 didn't have Macy Grey. That alone makes the sequel better.
More than likely not, but the main point of the fusion was the heat generated. With the water, it would act as a coolant. Not entirely feasible, but passable.
--Does Peter take off his mask at the drop of a hat in the comic books?
In Ultimate Spider-Man, yeah. Everyone in the world knows who he is, haha.
--Sometimes Doc Octopus can be heard from miles away, sometimes he sneaks up on you?
That's probably mostly part of his wanting to scare people beforehand. The tentacles themselves didn't have much weight, but they had force enough to bust shit up and make the mass enough to make the booming introduction to a fight. Otherwise, we could just blame the Vorhees Unreality Engine, which allows slow/lumbering/loud things to sneak up on people.
ALSO: Spider-Man 2 didn't have Macy Grey. That alone makes the sequel better.
Spike Spiegel
Member
"I'm back! I'm back!!!" 
*SLAM* *BOUNCE* *CRACK*
"My back! My back!!!
Incredible film, better than the first in almost every aspect. The only thing I think it was missing was a true sob-inducing moment, a la Uncle Ben's death scene in the original. Other than that... holy cow. Saw it last night at 7:05pm, and I've still got this stupid grin on my face. Ebert's right, this very well may be the best comic book movie ever made.
I'm going to go see it again this Saturday.
*SLAM* *BOUNCE* *CRACK*
"My back! My back!!!
Incredible film, better than the first in almost every aspect. The only thing I think it was missing was a true sob-inducing moment, a la Uncle Ben's death scene in the original. Other than that... holy cow. Saw it last night at 7:05pm, and I've still got this stupid grin on my face. Ebert's right, this very well may be the best comic book movie ever made.
I'm going to go see it again this Saturday.
Time for my post...there's a few spoilers sprinkled in there, so act accordingly.
Reminds me of the first (and seemingly only) negative review for Titanic...the guy who wrote that got hung by the balls. Bet if they all had to write their reviews again, more would've agreed with him...
Nah, Brock became Venom in the cartoon as well...JJJ's son brought it back with him from the moon, which had escaped and tried to overtake him and the craft. It then crash landed on the George Washington Bridge. Spidey saved him (after tangling with Rhyno for a bit, hired by Kingpin), went back into the shuttle after he thought he heard something, then the whole thing fell into the river. Spidey then swam out, but the black stuff was all over him. He went home to bed, then woke up to find himself upside down in the middle of the city in the symbiote suit. It was pretty cool all things considered, and no less cheesey then the Secret Wars (and BTW, why do people even think that Secret Wars is an option for the movies? It simply isn't going to happen...period, end of story, done).
It is pretty stupid isn't it? What's the point of keeping the identity secret from the ones close to you, when half the fucking city has seen your face? And do you really believe that no one person in a fucking New York subwar car wouldn't spill the beans on what he looked like? That goes far beyond the suspension of disbelief. The other unmaskings were fine though.
He really didn't though...the cut simply gave it away without him knowing it. Then his mask was half torn to shreds after one of those pumpkin bombs blew up.
That entire train scene was shot in Chicago...Raimi said he needed to do that because he wanted the buildings in the various shots, for obvious reasons.
Good to know someone knows their shit. This leads into something I want to mention later on in this post.
You forgot Ultimate!
He was going to, but he had people to save.
Heh yeah, I caught that...very quick. Done during the first fight I think, which I thought was slightly better then the first one only because it had more closeups of the ridiculously intense action (seeing them going it at it on the side of that building for the first time literally took my breath away).
Not a chance...but I'd love to be wrong. Titanic's box office business defied all logic though...it'll take a miracle for another movie to even approach it, especially worldwide. Even Federman realizes that truth, as sad as it is for him. We haven't even seen another $500 million movie in the US yet, and Titanic made $600 million. And the worldwide take is $1.8 billion...only other movie to make the billion club was the recent LOTR, and Titanic damn near made $2 billion. The numbers are simply looney toons.
Nah...Spidey was weakened cause of what he had to do to stop that train. It took literally everything he had out of him. Otherwise Spidey and Doc were fighting to a draw the entire movie. As for GG, no way he beats the sequel's Spidey. The fights he had with Ock were far more complicated, faster paced and flat out brutal then the fights seen in the first movie. Raimi stated that he wanted to show the growth of Spidey in terms of his physical attributes and decision making from the the first movie to the second, and I think that was done pretty well.
I loved the movie...still not perfect, but it's up there with the first two Superman movies and TMNT as the best live action comic-based movies I've seen. There still wasn't enough Spidey for me...I was hoping to see him dealing with a couple more random crimes. And some of the MJ stuff was kinda hokey. And I didn't get the idea that Spidey was losing his powers because he didn't want to be anymore. I could've bought the idea that he was losing them because the conflicting feelings he had for MJ was making him ill, since they covered that in the doctor's office (oh yeah, that's one more person who knows who Spidey is...sheesh). But Doc Ock was done extremely well, the first 40 minutes or so when Peter was just getting bombarded was top notch, and the fight scenes were absolutely incredible (funny enough I liked the first fight scene more then the train scene, simply because there were more closeups of the ridiculously intense hard hitting action). The humour spots were quite funny as well...JJJ was absolutely hilarious, and Tobey's self-mocking relating to his back troubles before shooting the movie (as Spike Spiegel alluded to) was choice.
If this is a planned trilogy, then Jameson Jr will be Venom. There's no other conclusion to make. I guess he'll hook up with Goblin 2 (maybe Harry should give himself a Hobgoblin look, using the hood as a way to cover him up since he won't feel he measures up to his father until he takes Spidey out...just a thought), or maybe they'll have no relationship with each other whatsoever while trying to take Spidey out. Spidey should fuck Harry up no matter what if he tries to go at it by himself, so he'll need help from somewhere. And Lizard doesn't strike me as being an interesting movie character. But if Raimi was to make four movies, then using Lizard in 3 would make more sense, leaving Venom for #4. Anyway, whatever...we'll see what happens.
In terms of what I wanted to mention, I don't think Mask of the Phantasm (still the king of comic-based movies) was much different in terms of character realization with Bruce Wayne. Sure he doesn't have nearly as many troubles as Peter did, but he still had a choices to make (wear the cowl or go for the girl), and the subsequent results weren't any less painful for Bruce then it was for Peter. And seeing Bruce put that suit on for the first time following that result and then turn to the face Alfred ("...My God...") is one of the coolest and most haunting scenes I've seen in any movie. I only hope Batman Begins has a similiar scene.
Anyway, all in all it was a fantastic movie...I'll probably watch it again next week. Game rocks so far too, and I want to get that giant-sized Spider-Man figure in the next week or two. Seems they hit it out of the park in terms of having a quality flick with quality merchandise (many movies struggle to get one of them right, nevermind all three facets).
explodet said:
borghe said:
Nah, Brock became Venom in the cartoon as well...JJJ's son brought it back with him from the moon, which had escaped and tried to overtake him and the craft. It then crash landed on the George Washington Bridge. Spidey saved him (after tangling with Rhyno for a bit, hired by Kingpin), went back into the shuttle after he thought he heard something, then the whole thing fell into the river. Spidey then swam out, but the black stuff was all over him. He went home to bed, then woke up to find himself upside down in the middle of the city in the symbiote suit. It was pretty cool all things considered, and no less cheesey then the Secret Wars (and BTW, why do people even think that Secret Wars is an option for the movies? It simply isn't going to happen...period, end of story, done).
Seth C said:
It is pretty stupid isn't it? What's the point of keeping the identity secret from the ones close to you, when half the fucking city has seen your face? And do you really believe that no one person in a fucking New York subwar car wouldn't spill the beans on what he looked like? That goes far beyond the suspension of disbelief. The other unmaskings were fine though.
borghe said:
He really didn't though...the cut simply gave it away without him knowing it. Then his mask was half torn to shreds after one of those pumpkin bombs blew up.
aparisi2274 said:
That entire train scene was shot in Chicago...Raimi said he needed to do that because he wanted the buildings in the various shots, for obvious reasons.
ManaByte said:
Good to know someone knows their shit. This leads into something I want to mention later on in this post.
BobbyRobby said:
You forgot Ultimate!
Diablos said:
He was going to, but he had people to save.
ManaByte said:
Heh yeah, I caught that...very quick. Done during the first fight I think, which I thought was slightly better then the first one only because it had more closeups of the ridiculously intense action (seeing them going it at it on the side of that building for the first time literally took my breath away).
Matlock said:
borghe said:
Nah...Spidey was weakened cause of what he had to do to stop that train. It took literally everything he had out of him. Otherwise Spidey and Doc were fighting to a draw the entire movie. As for GG, no way he beats the sequel's Spidey. The fights he had with Ock were far more complicated, faster paced and flat out brutal then the fights seen in the first movie. Raimi stated that he wanted to show the growth of Spidey in terms of his physical attributes and decision making from the the first movie to the second, and I think that was done pretty well.
I loved the movie...still not perfect, but it's up there with the first two Superman movies and TMNT as the best live action comic-based movies I've seen. There still wasn't enough Spidey for me...I was hoping to see him dealing with a couple more random crimes. And some of the MJ stuff was kinda hokey. And I didn't get the idea that Spidey was losing his powers because he didn't want to be anymore. I could've bought the idea that he was losing them because the conflicting feelings he had for MJ was making him ill, since they covered that in the doctor's office (oh yeah, that's one more person who knows who Spidey is...sheesh). But Doc Ock was done extremely well, the first 40 minutes or so when Peter was just getting bombarded was top notch, and the fight scenes were absolutely incredible (funny enough I liked the first fight scene more then the train scene, simply because there were more closeups of the ridiculously intense hard hitting action). The humour spots were quite funny as well...JJJ was absolutely hilarious, and Tobey's self-mocking relating to his back troubles before shooting the movie (as Spike Spiegel alluded to) was choice.
If this is a planned trilogy, then Jameson Jr will be Venom. There's no other conclusion to make. I guess he'll hook up with Goblin 2 (maybe Harry should give himself a Hobgoblin look, using the hood as a way to cover him up since he won't feel he measures up to his father until he takes Spidey out...just a thought), or maybe they'll have no relationship with each other whatsoever while trying to take Spidey out. Spidey should fuck Harry up no matter what if he tries to go at it by himself, so he'll need help from somewhere. And Lizard doesn't strike me as being an interesting movie character. But if Raimi was to make four movies, then using Lizard in 3 would make more sense, leaving Venom for #4. Anyway, whatever...we'll see what happens.
In terms of what I wanted to mention, I don't think Mask of the Phantasm (still the king of comic-based movies) was much different in terms of character realization with Bruce Wayne. Sure he doesn't have nearly as many troubles as Peter did, but he still had a choices to make (wear the cowl or go for the girl), and the subsequent results weren't any less painful for Bruce then it was for Peter. And seeing Bruce put that suit on for the first time following that result and then turn to the face Alfred ("...My God...") is one of the coolest and most haunting scenes I've seen in any movie. I only hope Batman Begins has a similiar scene.
Anyway, all in all it was a fantastic movie...I'll probably watch it again next week. Game rocks so far too, and I want to get that giant-sized Spider-Man figure in the next week or two. Seems they hit it out of the park in terms of having a quality flick with quality merchandise (many movies struggle to get one of them right, nevermind all three facets).
Shinobi said:
Sorry, I wasn't clear.. Yes he was weakened by having to stop the train, but that was deliberate on Doc Ock's part. The train was basically another "weapon" of ock.. that's what I meant.. Doc Ock beat him by cheating, but still beat him nonetheless...
The Fronde
Member
I came away very disappointed.
For a movie that didn't have to tell the origin story, I thought that there was way too much Peter Parker and not nearly enough Spiderman. OK, I get that being Spiderman messes up his life and relationships. He's conflicted but can't ignore his responsiblity. He can't get close to people or they'll get hurt. Got it. I really don't need 75% of the movie to show me Peter Parker getting casually screwed over by these facts. Don't get me wrong, the 20 or so minutes that Spiderman was actually on-screen were awesome. The train scene was great too, except for the routine "You mess with one of us you mess with all of us" crapola. Obviously Spiderman isn't a one-dimensional character and Peter Parker has to be showcased too, but not for anywhere near as long as he was and not when almost every one of his scenes can be lumped into the "My relationship with my best friend/secret love/aunt/professor/Middle Eastern pizza chef guy/whoever sucks because of my responsibility" or the "My life just plain sucks" categories. If I wanted an hour and a half of repetitive, introspective soul-searching I'd have rented Stepmom. I wanted a fast-paced action movie with a healthy mix of character development. I only got one of those with Spiderman.
I also thought that there was way too much comedy injected into this one. I guess this was too liven up all those slow bits I just talked about, but to me it was overdone and used too regularly. I'm all for some laughs, and love Spidey's punchlines, but it seemed like way too many scenes were there primarily there to garner laughs or set up a joke. Not a lot seemed to just be an aside to the main story or fit well. At the end of the day, this is an action movie, not an action comedy. What purpose did Aunt May's hanging from the ledge serve? Hal Sparks, WTF? CROTCH LOL
Finally, particularly due to all the quick zooms of women screaming and the part in the operating room, I felt that the movie had quite a bit of camp when there really was no need for it. Make a serious movie or a make a campy one, don't try to mix and match. This took away from the urgency of what was happening for me. I get that the operating room part was a Raimi throwback, but was this really necessary? What could have been a much more haunting, memorable scene was marred by the cheesy screaming, zooms, and some of the imagery. What's worse is that it seemed as if Sam wasn't sure if he wanted to make it more campy or strictly disturbing, so it ended up doing neither very well. Being a throwback doesn't suddenly make this a good idea.
Bruce Campbell and Stan Lee were great. The Asian lady singing the old theme was funny AND well-done I thought, and the action rocked. Overall though, there wasn't nearly enough action/Spiderman moments and too much camp and comedy IMO. And I guess the fusion ball with sun-surface temperatures was just never heard from again
+1 Ashy Larry though.
For a movie that didn't have to tell the origin story, I thought that there was way too much Peter Parker and not nearly enough Spiderman. OK, I get that being Spiderman messes up his life and relationships. He's conflicted but can't ignore his responsiblity. He can't get close to people or they'll get hurt. Got it. I really don't need 75% of the movie to show me Peter Parker getting casually screwed over by these facts. Don't get me wrong, the 20 or so minutes that Spiderman was actually on-screen were awesome. The train scene was great too, except for the routine "You mess with one of us you mess with all of us" crapola. Obviously Spiderman isn't a one-dimensional character and Peter Parker has to be showcased too, but not for anywhere near as long as he was and not when almost every one of his scenes can be lumped into the "My relationship with my best friend/secret love/aunt/professor/Middle Eastern pizza chef guy/whoever sucks because of my responsibility" or the "My life just plain sucks" categories. If I wanted an hour and a half of repetitive, introspective soul-searching I'd have rented Stepmom. I wanted a fast-paced action movie with a healthy mix of character development. I only got one of those with Spiderman.
I also thought that there was way too much comedy injected into this one. I guess this was too liven up all those slow bits I just talked about, but to me it was overdone and used too regularly. I'm all for some laughs, and love Spidey's punchlines, but it seemed like way too many scenes were there primarily there to garner laughs or set up a joke. Not a lot seemed to just be an aside to the main story or fit well. At the end of the day, this is an action movie, not an action comedy. What purpose did Aunt May's hanging from the ledge serve? Hal Sparks, WTF? CROTCH LOL
Finally, particularly due to all the quick zooms of women screaming and the part in the operating room, I felt that the movie had quite a bit of camp when there really was no need for it. Make a serious movie or a make a campy one, don't try to mix and match. This took away from the urgency of what was happening for me. I get that the operating room part was a Raimi throwback, but was this really necessary? What could have been a much more haunting, memorable scene was marred by the cheesy screaming, zooms, and some of the imagery. What's worse is that it seemed as if Sam wasn't sure if he wanted to make it more campy or strictly disturbing, so it ended up doing neither very well. Being a throwback doesn't suddenly make this a good idea.
Bruce Campbell and Stan Lee were great. The Asian lady singing the old theme was funny AND well-done I thought, and the action rocked. Overall though, there wasn't nearly enough action/Spiderman moments and too much camp and comedy IMO. And I guess the fusion ball with sun-surface temperatures was just never heard from again
+1 Ashy Larry though.
Matlock said:Entangled isn't one of 'em, a lot of people think that.
Webshooter was a limited series, Swingers was an offshoot with a bunch of kids dressing in former costumes of Spider-Man.
Oh yeah, and Peter Parker, but that'd be 21, now wouldn't it?
I just assumed You were hiding "tangled" in entangled, as in "Spider-Man's Tangled Web." Are you not counting Stan's phrase "True Believers" as one?
Superman is Superman.. At the end of the day that is who superman really is.. Clark Kent is just an act. Spider-Man is not Spider-Man.. he is Peter Parker.. that is what makes the character so great... Show Clark Kent through most aof a Superman movie and you lose the viewer.. that isn't who they relate to because it is just a disguise. Show Spider-Man all of the time in a sequel and you guarantee cutting your first film's box office business in half.. what makes the best stories of Spider-Man compelling is when they have to do with Peter or some-thing/one in his life... The viewers/readers relate to Peter, not Spider-Man... Show a ton of Peter and they can relate. Show a ton of spider-man and you will eventually bore them.
This movie was spot on with the best Spider-Man stories ever told.. The people who wanted more Spider-Man and less Peter didn't want a good Spider-Man movie.. they wanted a popcorn action flick...
And this isn't just my opinion... JMS has single handedly ressurected the comic series over the last 2 years by doing this EXACT SAME THING, and readers have approved dramatically through increasing sales...
I can just see it now.. all of the guys complaining about the movie being too slow or not enough spider-man would probably complain that there was no story had Raimi done as they wanted...
This movie was spot on with the best Spider-Man stories ever told.. The people who wanted more Spider-Man and less Peter didn't want a good Spider-Man movie.. they wanted a popcorn action flick...
And this isn't just my opinion... JMS has single handedly ressurected the comic series over the last 2 years by doing this EXACT SAME THING, and readers have approved dramatically through increasing sales...
I can just see it now.. all of the guys complaining about the movie being too slow or not enough spider-man would probably complain that there was no story had Raimi done as they wanted...
Final numbers from Wednesday were just released.. Move over Spider-Man, because Spider-Man 2 just hauled in $40.5M making it the biggest opening day in the history of movies...
BOOYAH!!!!
BOOYAH!!!!
The Fronde
Member
There's such a thing as a middle ground, you know. I would've preferred a good mix, not a heap of one and a pinch of the other. But I guess I wouldn't have been satisfied either way, thus there was no way for me to enjoy it and no reason to count my opinion, right?
Ok, here is the action we got:
I never said your opinion doesn't count, I just have to seriously question your statements... 4 major action set pieces three minor action set pieces, plenty of extraneous swinging around and you want more? You say you want "balance" but unless I am wrong here you are actually saying (both in your original reply and followup) that you in fact wanted more spider-man and less parker.. That's fine that it is your opinion, but I also have the right to be of the opinion that had they given more action and less story that everyone would have written it off as a bland sequel with more of the same....
mild: delivering pizzas
mild: nuclear fusion
major: hospital
major: bank
mild: police chase
mild: fire
major: train
major: nuclear fusion 2
and that isn't even counting the numerous scenes with him just swinging around (beginning, end, in between)
mild: nuclear fusion
major: hospital
major: bank
mild: police chase
mild: fire
major: train
major: nuclear fusion 2
and that isn't even counting the numerous scenes with him just swinging around (beginning, end, in between)
I never said your opinion doesn't count, I just have to seriously question your statements... 4 major action set pieces three minor action set pieces, plenty of extraneous swinging around and you want more? You say you want "balance" but unless I am wrong here you are actually saying (both in your original reply and followup) that you in fact wanted more spider-man and less parker.. That's fine that it is your opinion, but I also have the right to be of the opinion that had they given more action and less story that everyone would have written it off as a bland sequel with more of the same....
The hospital and nuclear fusion sequences don't qualify as "major" action setpieces, IMO. The quality, intensity, and length isn't really there. I think we were all pretty disappointed that instead of a real intense final showdown we got this cheesy Spidey-Ock pep talk and head scratching "nuclear explosions are okay if they are underwater" conclusion.
The balance between action is as much about pacing as it is about the quantities of each anyhow. Having Spider-Man essentially leave the film for an hour in the middle is pretty frustrating. Like others have said, too much time was spent hammering in the idea that Parker's life is a mess.
The balance between action is as much about pacing as it is about the quantities of each anyhow. Having Spider-Man essentially leave the film for an hour in the middle is pretty frustrating. Like others have said, too much time was spent hammering in the idea that Parker's life is a mess.
The Fronde
Member
I want a decent mix, something that ties the two stories and personas together without seriously downplaying one or the other or beating the viewer over the head with one's agenda. The action scenes were great, but in-between every one was a slow collection of repetitive, plodding scenes with a different relation of Peter's. You'd get excited during an action scene, then wade through 20 minutes of Peter Parker's sucky, predictable existence, facing the same issue and dealing it with it in largely the same way except for on one or two occasions.
Did I want this movie to be nothing but action? No. You're right to say that both stories are needed to complement each other. But the "I hate being Spiderman" plotline is predictable enough without expounding on it for the length of time that the film spent. It was nice to see Parker dealing with the human aspect of being a superhero, but there's only so many ways to depict unhappiness before it wears thin. You can have a non-cookie cutter sequel without going balls out in only one direction.
Did I want this movie to be nothing but action? No. You're right to say that both stories are needed to complement each other. But the "I hate being Spiderman" plotline is predictable enough without expounding on it for the length of time that the film spent. It was nice to see Parker dealing with the human aspect of being a superhero, but there's only so many ways to depict unhappiness before it wears thin. You can have a non-cookie cutter sequel without going balls out in only one direction.
overall the quality and intensity of the 2nd nuclear fussion were definitely there.. while they weren't focused on doc ock and spidey fighting, there was still lots of save MJ/new york etc.. not all action in a superhero movie has to be about fighting bad guys.
as for the hospital, whatever it was missing in length it MORE than made up for in intensity and quality.. no music, tons of bizarre camera angles, plenty of "homages".. possibly the best overall scene in the movie IMHO.
I really have to defend both of those sequences.. if those aren't considered major action set pieces I really have to question how short our attention spans have become...
as for the "I don't want to be spidey" story being predictable, you have to understand that while WE might find it predictable, someone not having gone to a similar superhero movie before might not find it so predictable. You can never cut out story just assuming that everyone will "get the picture". We know the ins and outs of Peter Parker's life because we've been reading the comics for many years.. after the first movie though, it would be very easy to say "Oh yeah, PP's life is great," when it isn't..
as for the hospital, whatever it was missing in length it MORE than made up for in intensity and quality.. no music, tons of bizarre camera angles, plenty of "homages".. possibly the best overall scene in the movie IMHO.
I really have to defend both of those sequences.. if those aren't considered major action set pieces I really have to question how short our attention spans have become...
as for the "I don't want to be spidey" story being predictable, you have to understand that while WE might find it predictable, someone not having gone to a similar superhero movie before might not find it so predictable. You can never cut out story just assuming that everyone will "get the picture". We know the ins and outs of Peter Parker's life because we've been reading the comics for many years.. after the first movie though, it would be very easy to say "Oh yeah, PP's life is great," when it isn't..
The Fronde
Member
I really doubt that anybody would not be able to figure out that, after wrestling with his responsibility, Peter would realize that he had to stop the murderous villain and save the girl. Also, you don't have to cut out the plot point, just not beat the audience over the head with it. Being predictable is one thing, being predictable and featuring the same sort of boring filler scenes is another. IMO, most superhero movies are fairly predictable, which is why, although you still need the human element, action has to play a very large role. I don't feel that this was the case with Spiderman.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=10bqs/dunst
Umm...
I think it's time to get a new MJ.
but again, you forgot to preface this with "IMHO". Yes, to me most superhero movies are very predicatable as well.. But after reading almost every marvel and DC title from the past 25 years one would expect them to become predictable. Time travel, space exploration gone wrong, the reactor melting down and giving someone powers, cosmic gamma rays, etc.. yup.. all tired cliches and predictable... to a comic fan... to a non-comic fan they are just seeing and learning this stuff for the first time.
seriously, how many times outside of the superhero genre has the "Hero No More" story been told..? at least on this type of level...
mjq jazz bar
Banned
What role did Michael Chabon play in the creation of the screenplay?
The Fronde
Member
I think you're placing too much emphasis on how we might see it due to years of following this and not basing enough on simply being able to put 2 and 2 together. Whether or not you've read the comics, seen the TV show, or watched the first film, based on the facts that A) Spiderman is a good guy, B) This is a massively successful franchise, and C) this a superhero action movie, not a pillar of modern American cinema, ANYONE (IMHO) could predict that he would not simply abandon the city and let Doc Ock kill everyone. It's not so much that it's adhering to superhero cliches as it's adhering to basic movie cliches. You don't have to major in Marvel to know almost exactly what's going to happen.
'Spider-Man 2' Takes in Record $40.5M
2 hours, 16 minutes ago
LOS ANGELES - "Spider-Man 2" took in $40.5 million in its first day, a record debut that positions the film to beat more box-office highs through the Fourth of July weekend.
Paul Dergarabedian, president of box-office tracker Exhibitor Relations, said Thursday that "Spider-Man 2" could go on to shatter other debut records, including the best three-day weekend of $114.8 million for "Spider-Man."
Ticket sales Wednesday surpassed the previous debut record of $39.4 million that the original "Spider-Man" grossed in its first day two years ago.
The opening-day figure for "Spider-Man 2" was even more remarkable since it came on a Wednesday, when business is slower than on weekends. The first "Spider-Man" debuted on a Friday.
"We're in uncharted territory looking at midweek numbers this big," Dergarabedian said. "I remember when $40 million was a big opening weekend for a movie not that long ago, and now that's a single day in the middle of the week."
The best previous debut for a movie opening on Wednesday was $34.5 million last December for "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King."
2 hours, 16 minutes ago
LOS ANGELES - "Spider-Man 2" took in $40.5 million in its first day, a record debut that positions the film to beat more box-office highs through the Fourth of July weekend.
Paul Dergarabedian, president of box-office tracker Exhibitor Relations, said Thursday that "Spider-Man 2" could go on to shatter other debut records, including the best three-day weekend of $114.8 million for "Spider-Man."
Ticket sales Wednesday surpassed the previous debut record of $39.4 million that the original "Spider-Man" grossed in its first day two years ago.
The opening-day figure for "Spider-Man 2" was even more remarkable since it came on a Wednesday, when business is slower than on weekends. The first "Spider-Man" debuted on a Friday.
"We're in uncharted territory looking at midweek numbers this big," Dergarabedian said. "I remember when $40 million was a big opening weekend for a movie not that long ago, and now that's a single day in the middle of the week."
The best previous debut for a movie opening on Wednesday was $34.5 million last December for "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King."
ahh.. see, we are talking about two different things..
I didn't at all view it as "Will Spider-Man come back or not," nor do I think that was the purpose of the movie.. Of course he is coming back.. it is WHY he is coming back, what exactly he is giving up or feels he needs to give up.. the fact that quitting in the first place was based off of an entirely selfish decision. If you paint it as simple as "He quit and then he came back" of course that's predictable. So is stating that "Spider-Man will fight someone in this movie." But none of that's what the story was about. It was about a person's motivations for doing (or not doing) something and the ability for someone to be selflessly heroic when he could easily cop out and get what he wants instead... I hardly find that type of story a cliche or predictable outside of comic books...
as for the franchise and how well known it is, outside of the comics, this aspect of Peter's life has NEVER been touched in this way.. unless you are fairly versed in specific issues of the series (as opposed to just knowing the general jist of it) again, this will be relatively new ground.
I didn't at all view it as "Will Spider-Man come back or not," nor do I think that was the purpose of the movie.. Of course he is coming back.. it is WHY he is coming back, what exactly he is giving up or feels he needs to give up.. the fact that quitting in the first place was based off of an entirely selfish decision. If you paint it as simple as "He quit and then he came back" of course that's predictable. So is stating that "Spider-Man will fight someone in this movie." But none of that's what the story was about. It was about a person's motivations for doing (or not doing) something and the ability for someone to be selflessly heroic when he could easily cop out and get what he wants instead... I hardly find that type of story a cliche or predictable outside of comic books...
as for the franchise and how well known it is, outside of the comics, this aspect of Peter's life has NEVER been touched in this way.. unless you are fairly versed in specific issues of the series (as opposed to just knowing the general jist of it) again, this will be relatively new ground.
Spike Spiegel
Member
One more thing: I just wanna say that Sam Raimi and I must have some kinda psychic connection or something, because...
...the scene where Harry "sees" his father Norman and discovers the Goblin's Lair for the first time played out almost exactly how I envisioned it would after the first movie came out, right down to the lair's entrance being hidden behind that floor-length mirror. The only difference is that in my version Norman contacted his son via a pre-recorded message coming from the Lair, and not as a psychotic hallucination.
The Fronde
Member
You're talking about the theme of the story. The theme is perfectly fine. However, moving past that, there is no way that even the most casual of movie-goers could not have seen what was going to happen. Whether or not it's frequent outside of comic books is irrelevant if everyone in the theater could see it coming from a mile away anyway. I mean, did you expect some people to really believe that Spidey had quit for good and that there would be no happy ending or sequels?
This being the case, and a weakness inherent in superhero stories of this nature, I feel that fleshing it out was a worthwhile idea, but not to the repetitive extent that it was in the movie.
I think that this represents an inherent disagreement between the two of us. While this specific plot point might be new to many, nobody believed that it would really be the end of Spiderman, that he wouldn't recognize his duty and do it. Thus, it was predictable, and basing a huge, repetitive portion of the movie on it over the great action scenes was dumb IMO.
BTW, I didn't mean to come off as so forceful in my shortest reply.
again, you are focusing on a largely irrelevant point.. the point of the story wasn't Spider-Man quits and comes back. When somebody quits.. No one cares that they quit. They are more interested WHY they quit. Quitting isn't ever a big story unto itself. his motivations and decisions weren't a theme, they were the basis of the story. trading any of that for more action would have made the point of him quitting entirely irrelevant.. you said it best. No one is going to believe he is going to quit.. So if you don;t focus on WHY he quit.. just pain it with a "he got sick of it for a while but now wants to come back" that hardly seems interesting or even credible.. it would have detracted from the movie significantly. instead they fully showed why someone would want to quit and what would motivate them to come back...
I can understand your disappointment that the villain wasn't the main story, but seriously, how many "Superhero takes on bad guy trying to destroy the world/city" can we see before we get tired? Raimi took a different approach for the movies and gave us more than the typical teen male powertrip.
I can understand your disappointment that the villain wasn't the main story, but seriously, how many "Superhero takes on bad guy trying to destroy the world/city" can we see before we get tired? Raimi took a different approach for the movies and gave us more than the typical teen male powertrip.
The Fronde
Member
It's in this regard that I feel the movie fell flat on its face. We could've seen why he wanted to quit within the first few key scenes. Obviously they shouldn't have edited to just that, but at the same time they should not have gone in the complete opposite direction and beaten us over the head with why he would want to quit for a good hour and a half of the movie in the way that they did. The pacing just wasn't there either, with long, painful stretches of sad Peter for every one action sequence IMO.
My point about it being predictable was simply that such being the case, to drag out those types of scenes like they did made for a badly paced, monotonous movie.
I completely agree that the movie should not have been a testosterone driven, XXX in a Spiderman costume. At the same time, though, it shouldn't have been Lost in Translation either. I realize that saying I want more of a balance is nebulous, but that doesn't invalidate the point in any way.
The Fronde
Member
Yes, sir
for the record, it wasn't an hour and a half, or anywhere near.. basically from
to
which was like 40 minutes top.. and that includes the two minor action set pieces during that time as well... so for well less than half the movie they focused on the shit that was Peter's life... and you still felt that was too much?
the aunt may kidnapping
the mary jane kidnapping
The Fronde
Member
I'd definitely like to see some sort of scene recount from an unbiased source, no offense, before we go any further as far as exact times. I say an hour and a half because that's what it felt like to me.
Saying it was only forty minutes is insane though, and to try and group it in one chunk doesn't work out either, since the movie didn't flow as Peter Parker for half, then Spiderman. It was more like Spiderman, long stretch of sad Peter, Spiderman, long stretch of sad Peter, Spiderman, long stretch of sad Peter, Spiderman. This sort of pacing problem was what really hurt it. Don't try to tell me that we saw Spiderman straight for the other hour and twenty minutes of the movie either. That sort of clock manipulation distorts things.
Saying it was only forty minutes is insane though, and to try and group it in one chunk doesn't work out either, since the movie didn't flow as Peter Parker for half, then Spiderman. It was more like Spiderman, long stretch of sad Peter, Spiderman, long stretch of sad Peter, Spiderman, long stretch of sad Peter, Spiderman. This sort of pacing problem was what really hurt it. Don't try to tell me that we saw Spiderman straight for the other hour and twenty minutes of the movie either. That sort of clock manipulation distorts things.
ok, NOW you are essentially saying that everything with pete on the screen sucked.. not everything with peter on the screen was exposition of the story.. there was some action, some humor, etc as well...
anyway, I disagree with you.. as much as you say you don't want Spider-Man starring in a Michael Bay movie, most of your stances tend to infer otherwise... being that as the case, I will just accept that we disagree (as well as the majority of other posters to this thread and most reviewers) and just leave it at that. You can't please everyone I guess..
anyway, I disagree with you.. as much as you say you don't want Spider-Man starring in a Michael Bay movie, most of your stances tend to infer otherwise... being that as the case, I will just accept that we disagree (as well as the majority of other posters to this thread and most reviewers) and just leave it at that. You can't please everyone I guess..
The Fronde
Member
Yeah, yeah. Of course it wasn't JUST sad Peter. Of course there were bits of humor, small bits of action, etc. But the parts that seemed to drag on the longest to me WERE the bits where Peter was obviously having a hard time, again and again. That's where the pacing and repetitiveness killed me.
Accusing me of wanting a Michael Bay helmed Spiderman is immature. We happen to disagree, but I'm not going to go and say that you're some sort of liar and that you just want an M Night Spiderman or something equally contrived. I wanted more action, more balance and I feel I've explained that pretty well. Oh well.
And for the record, I don't give a damn what most people happen to think and neither should you. That nebulous "most people" group has been wrong quite frequently in history, after all. Again, oh well.
Accusing me of wanting a Michael Bay helmed Spiderman is immature. We happen to disagree, but I'm not going to go and say that you're some sort of liar and that you just want an M Night Spiderman or something equally contrived. I wanted more action, more balance and I feel I've explained that pretty well. Oh well.
And for the record, I don't give a damn what most people happen to think and neither should you. That nebulous "most people" group has been wrong quite frequently in history, after all. Again, oh well.
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