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[Mephisto40]

That is the beauty of it. You do not need to buy it. All Xbox Series X games will still play on the older console, so why complain about the Xbox Series X coming out?

Yeh...

 

[skit_data]

"BUT I'M SEPTICAL"

 

[SEGAvangelist]

The workload required to optimize a game for potential Pro is nothing back breaking, maybe a few weeks depending on what kind of performance and features the developers want to implement.

I remember Cerny even mentioned how they went out their way to ensure that the optimization for the PS4 Pro was streamlined as much as possible.

That's great and all, and I agree that it should be much easier to optimize for a more powerful console than a weaker console, but to say that the existence of a PS5 Pro allows for any "freedom" and "breathing room" would suggest that newer games are targeted for the PS5 Pro at the expense of the base PS5. Those words just sound like marketing to make an additional console seem less annoying for developers to deal with.

 

[mckmas8808]

What's sad is that Sony doesn't even have to care about spec leaks anymore.
They're probably sitting there like, is a switch 2 handheld going to outpower it? nope. is MS even making a midgen console? nope.

This is under-rated the BEST post of this thread. Sony is in a position where leaks from their PS5 Pro actually is a good thing. Nobody on the console level is competing with them when it comes to power anymore.

 

[angrod14]

I'm mostly interested in the design rather than the internal specs. The slim versions were ugly AF.

 

[angrod14]

This is under-rated the BEST post of this thread. Sony is in a position where leaks from their PS5 Pro actually is a good thing. Nobody on the console level is competing with them when it comes to power anymore.

In a way, they're competing with themselves. They need to persuade their base PS5 costumers that the upgrade is worthwile. How many of them they expect to convince? Only Sony knows.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

watermarking a fucking list typed in word

 

[GHG]

I gotta ask. How does a PS5 Pro give additional freedom and breathing room to developers? They have to optimize for another version of the game. Any sort of freedom and breathing room would only be at the expense of the less powerful console in this case as the PS5 base version would then be an afterthought. This isn't an argument against the console being released, BTW.

Having more usable horsepower at your disposal means less hoops to jump through during the development process. It's part of the reason why we are seeing software become less efficient over time (across the board, not just exclusively in gaming) as hardware becomes more capable.

The "usable" part is important though, if it's just theoretical and there is no clear path for the developers to be able to access the extra performance then it can create more work.

But overall this is part of the reason we are seeing what most people perceive as "diminishing returns" when it comes to gaming/software improvements over time, when in fact what we are witnessing is more in line with Wirth's Law. Outside of those who develop exclusively for Nintendo systems, there's little incentive for developers to focus on optimisation and be innovative with those optimisations.

Johnathon Blow did an interesting talk related to this topic recently if you have time to watch it (highly recommended):




TLDR: hardware advancements make it easier for developers since the hardware is no longer the barrier for them to express their creativity. However one of the unintended consequences is that it can create inefficiencies and "laziness" (for lack of a better term - not their fault though, it's more fun to spend time experimenting creatively than it is to work on optimisation) in the work that they produce.

 

[mckmas8808]

I am hotly anticipating the forum dynamics of having only one pro console. It might be just like the year when there was just the PS4 pro, though. That but stretched to 2-3 years.

It's going to be nasty around here for years bro.

I said it months ago its part of the Xbox marching orders to combat the PS5 Pro, just get a PC

Thank you for reminding me "WHY" some of these people will be pushing us to get a PC instead. It's MS' counter to the PS5 Pro.

Is this some sort of mass ignorance going around or something? Or some sort of underhanded trolling? I am legit curious as I do not understand why there seems to be an increasing amount of people saying what are otherwise flat-out stupid things.

It's a PS5 Pro. Which is a PS5+. The only thing it is designed to do is take games that are made for the PS5, and play them at better presets than what the base PS5 can do. While costing maybe $100 - $150 more than the base model. Thats it. How is this concept suddenly so alien for a lot of people to understand?

Do you realize how stupid it is to call 8TF more over the OG a joke or stupid or not worth it for $100? In a world where people pay more than that for less of a jump between GPU SKUs in the PC market? Like I don't get it.

Even if the PS5pro was only offering 15TF with faster RAM, Fatsre CPU and maybe even more storage and asking only $100 more for the extra stuff... it would still be worth it.

WTF is wrong with people these days?

Read what HeisenbergFX4 has said. It's a campaign to talk the PS5 Pro down. And that campaign from the opposition has started early.

 

[Celcius]

People spent $599 on a screen(sure, there were a couple other smaller upgrades but mostly the screen) upgrade to their Steam Decks. Of course there is a HUGE market for a PS5 Pro. I'll give my ugly PS5 to my daughter. I hope this one is less ugly. Just make it black, Sony.

Giving the ugly PS5 to your daughter? What kind of father are you

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Full PS3 BC included

799,99 CAD

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Having more usable horsepower at your disposal means less hoops to jump through during the development process. It's part of the reason why we are seeing software become less efficient over time (across the board, not just exclusively in gaming) as hardware becomes more capable.

The "usable" part is important though, if it's just theoretical and there is no clear path for the developers to be able to access the extra performance then it can create more work.

But overall this is part of the reason we are seeing what most people perceive as "diminishing returns" when it comes to gaming/software improvements over time, when in fact what we are witnessing is more in line with Wirth's Law. Outside of those who develop exclusively for Nintendo systems, there's little incentive for developers to focus on optimisation and be innovative with those optimisations.

Johnathon Blow did an interesting talk related to this topic recently if you have time to watch it (highly recommended):




TLDR: hardware advancements make it easier for developers since the hardware is no longer the barrier for them to express their creativity. However one of the unintended consequences is that it can create inefficiencies and "laziness" (for lack of a better term - not their fault though, it's more fun to spend time experimenting creatively than it is to work on optimisation) in the work that they produce.

I don't think you understood my question. Of course, better hardware allows for more creativity, but devs are tied down by the base PS5 in this case, so there is no room for creativity beyond the base hardware. A pro model only adds extra work for developers. I'll check out that Blow video, though. He's pretty smart, and that people try to cancel him makes me like him even more.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Does the gpu not need to be the same GHz to ensure perfect parity with standard ps5 games?

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Full PS3 BC included

799,99 CAD

Lol I'd be dumb enough to buy it just for that.

 

[Quantum253]

Price was leaked as well. It will be about tree fiddy.

Sony is like the Lochness Monster. You give them tree fiddy and he'll never leave you alone

 

[Del_X]

$599 with no disc drive

 

[Quantum253]

At that point, take control of the narrative and officially release the specs, with the possibility they aren't final. But you can't be that far in the development cycle to change something of significance.

 

[skyfinch]

I can't afford mid gen excitement. Any chance these Wizards at Sony can release a PS5 pro series S? I'd be all over that shit.

 

[GHG]

I don't think you understood my question. Of course, better hardware allows for more creativity, but devs are tied down by the base PS5 in this case, so there is no room for creativity beyond the base hardware. A pro model only adds extra work for developers. I'll check out that Blow video, though. He's pretty smart, and that people try to cancel him makes me like him even more.

The answer is in my post. It's not just about giving them more freedom for creativity, the increase in hardware means whatever they make for the base PS5 will be guaranteed to run at at least the same level on the pro (hence the discussion around laziness).

The purpose of the pro model is to give gamers who want extra performance access to that performance. If they have it set up similarly to how they did with the PS4/PS4 pro then it will mean there's minimal work involved to get the same game running at a higher fps/resolution. The bulk of the work will be deciding where to cap things (in terms of resolution/settings etc).

Going from lower end hardware to higher end is orders of magnitude less work than it is if you create for a higher spec and then have to get the same project to work on less capable hardware.

 

[Physiognomonics]

At this point he is manually correcting logical specs figures hoping he is right while still using known info from trusty leakers. But fundamentally his sources are still random DMs. Geometry engine as "sony custom tech"? That's bullshit. We know GE is just the same units used on PC GPUs since Vega that are being improved by AMD in each new GPUs family.

6nm or 5nm but most likely 6nm? And why?

4GB DDR5 (conflicting info)? Etc.

 

[NickFire]

I gotta ask. How does a PS5 Pro give additional freedom and breathing room to developers? They have to optimize for another version of the game. Any sort of freedom and breathing room would only be at the expense of the less powerful console in this case as the PS5 base version would then be an afterthought. This isn't an argument against the console being released, BTW.

I think he's just excited that PS5 is finally getting its pro model like so many of us are.

Realistically, I don't see how this creates freedom or breathing room. Everything will still be primarily designed for the base model and the tweaked up. I am keeping my fingers crossed for maybe an occasional feature that the base model can't do, but it would probably be limited to things like split screen multiplayer. But I am not really hopeful for even that type of stuff. I'm really just expecting better native resolutions and framerate. Which is all I care about really.

 

[Doczu]

I can't afford mid gen excitement. Any chance these Wizards at Sony can release a PS5 pro series S? I'd be all over that shit.

Well you'd be surprised at what theyhave for you. It's called the PS5 (Slim). Out now. No need to wait for your (future) Series S experience.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

The answer is in my post. It's not just about giving them more freedom for creativity, the increase in hardware means whatever they make for the base PS5 will be guaranteed to run at at least the same level on the pro (hence the discussion around laziness).

The purpose of the pro model is to give gamers who want extra performance access to that performance. If they have it set up similarly to how they did with the PS4/PS4 pro then it will mean there's minimal work involved to get the same game running at a higher fps/resolution. The bulk of the work will be deciding where to cap things (in terms of resolution/settings etc).

Going from lower end hardware to higher end is orders of magnitude less work than it is if you create for a higher spec and then have to get the same project to work on less capable hardware.

The pro model still does nothing for freedom or breathing room. Those are buzz words. I imagine developers would choose to not see a PS5 Pro release, given the opportunity. It's only more work. Would they appreciate that work being easier? Sure, but it's still more work.

 

[MALpractice311]

Hoping this haas some way of auto upscaling / improving frame rate without developer help. This is what would sell me on the system instead of asking developers to go back to older titles and spend time and resources which most won't do or are no longer around.

We need a way to future proof these games similar to emulation with upscaling and frame boosting.

Well said. That would immediately change me from "Sony is going to need to show me something" to "Day One buy".

 

[NickFire]

I can't afford mid gen excitement. Any chance these Wizards at Sony can release a PS5 pro series S? I'd be all over that shit.

The base PS5 (OG or slim) is Sony's version of the Series S. They just stuck with last generation approach where the base model comes out first, followed by the pro years later. MS changed their approach and launched both versions at the same time.

 

[Party McHardy]

No fucking way. I could’ve held out on a ps5 for literal years and not missed anything substantial.

 

[Trogdor1123]

is 16 gigs enough? It doesn’t seem like enough.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Where are the leaked specs?

 

[Gambit2483]

The pro consoles will be interesting this go around. Last gen the main theme was going from 1080p to 4K. This time it will be much less obvious upgrades.

Also promising 60fps. Now that we basically have both of those options I wonder what they will push as the main feature/upgrade

 

[FoxMcChief]

The pro consoles will be interesting this go around. Last gen the main theme was going from 1080p to 4K. This time it will be much less obvious upgrades.

I just think it will allow lazy devs to be even lazier. Expecting less optimization all around third party games.

 

[Rosoboy19]

Why do people keep saying mid-gen refresh deniers are “scared”? Whether you agree with the idea or not why would a pro console be scary?

 

[jroc74]

I gotta ask. How does a PS5 Pro give additional freedom and breathing room to developers? They have to optimize for another version of the game. Any sort of freedom and breathing room would only be at the expense of the less powerful console in this case as the PS5 base version would then be an afterthought. This isn't an argument against the console being released, BTW.

How it it another version of a game?

PS4 Pro games had a Pro patch. Thats like an update. Not a whole different version.

Like how games get updates to fix issues, improve performance, etc?

I can't afford mid gen excitement. Any chance these Wizards at Sony can release a PS5 pro series S? I'd be all over that shit.

?

A PS5 Pro Series S makes no sense. Thats not a Pro.

 

[dead monkey uk]

At this he is manually correcting logical specs figures hoping he is right while still using known info from trusty leakers. But fundamentally his sources are still random DMs. Geometry engine as "sony custom tech"? That's bullshit. We know GE is just the same units used on PC GPUs since Vega that are being improved by AMD in each new GPUs family.

6nm or 5nm but most likely 6nm? And why?

4GB DDR5 (conflicting info)? Etc.

Its conflicting info only because he is listening to the other voices in his head.

He just puts down the info from the proper leaks and then adds his own guess work.

 

[Mobilemofo]

In a way, they're competing with themselves. They need to persuade their base PS5 costumers that the upgrade is worthwile. How many of them they expect to convince? Only Sony knows.

I won't be one of them. Ps5 cross gen, and now the PRO? They can get fucked.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Give lazy devs more power to brute force rather than needing talent. Plus make extra bucks from headless consumers, makes sense.

Who are the lazy devs? How are those “headless consumers” any different from you?

 

[EverydayBeast]

What are developers supposed to do with this “kits”? Discover issues? PS5 is really good.

 

[thismeinteil]

Like they already do with Series S?

His ilk is just worried Xbox will lose that power crown. Not that they really even had it this gen.

 

[GHG]

The pro model still does nothing for freedom or breathing room. Those are buzz words. I imagine developers would choose to not see a PS5 Pro release, given the opportunity. It's only more work. Would they appreciate that work being easier? Sure, but it's still more work.

More powerful hardware giving software more breathing room (and providing more freedom to devs) are facts, not "buzz words". There's not a single developer out there that wouldn't take more powerful hardware if it were offered to them.

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest here considering the fact that last time round developers were only full of praise and excitement for the pro consoles:

"This opens the door for more innovation, and more immersive experiences. From our new physics system, new AI system, new lighting and rendering techniques, and new audio features, we’re able to do so much more than we’ve ever been able to before.”

Call of Duty: WW2 Developer Calls PS4 Pro and Xbox One X ‘Incredible’

gamingbolt.com

"And developers, believe it or not, always want the best to show. That's why so many of them have these ultra-high settings for PC versions of the games. There's some pride in being able to show the best-looking version of it. The part that is less exciting for many developers is there is sometimes more work. There is usually more work involved, whether it's in exposing the settings, or making sure it runs at frame rate levels or stuff like that, but I think the payoff in the end of gamers having more ability to see high-fidelity stuff is cool."

Smaller company, higher stakes

In July, Adam Boyes left his role overseeing developer relations for PlayStation to rejoin the the developer ranks hims…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Graham mentioned that as a developer it's always really exciting when you have more GPU and hardware to work with, because it allows them to be truer to their vision. When they develop a new title, they start with very high resolution assets, and then they pack them into the game and try to get them to fit them in memory, frame rate and other constraints.

Watch_Dogs 2 Developer on PS4 Pro: "It's So Cool to See Your Work Look So Shiny and Spectacular"

www.dualshockers.com

“Across the board, it’s more crisp. That’s because we are rendering roughly twice as many pixels. So absolutely everything will look clearer,” said Greg Koreman, co-founder of Impulse Gear, the studio behind PS VR exclusive first-person shooter, Farpoint. “We are using Unreal Engine 4. We’ve done a little bit of work ourselves, but overall it was a really smooth transition — and it’s not exactly a transition. We are supporting both PS4 and PS4 Pro. So it was very easy to do it.”

'Farpoint' Developer Explains How the PS4 Pro Improves PlayStation VR Games

Sony revealed the PlayStation 4 Pro console at a press conference last week. With roughly 2.3X the graphical power of the original PS4, Sony stressed the ability to play games in 4K resolution, with HDR, if your television supports those formats. Using that extra power for PlayStation VR was

www.uploadvr.com

Being given more powerful hardware is always a net-positive for developers. If you want to be concerned about developers needing to do extra work when supporting a platform you might want to redirect your attention elsewhere.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Why do people keep saying mid-gen refresh deniers are “scared”? Whether you agree with the idea or not why would a pro console be scary?

You might not be scared but your main account is

 

[sendit]

Give lazy devs more power to brute force rather than needing talent. Plus make extra bucks from headless consumers, makes sense.

There is a device out there for you. It's called the Nintendo Switch. I'll continue to be a headless consumer.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Still think it is fucking stupid. But I just saw a post of some asshole who was happy he "upgraded" to a slim so I know there is a market for this. I just question how big it is and why they would incur extra dev costs for every fucking game to make them work on 2 sets of specs.

How is it stupid? Is it stupid for a PC gamer to upgrade every 4 yrs?

 

[GHG]

Give lazy devs more power to brute force rather than needing talent. Plus make extra bucks from headless consumers, makes sense.

As a "headless consumer" it's nice to have hardware at my disposal that allows me to circumvent the lazy devs and still enjoy the games I want to without needing to worry about performance issues.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

I still think it's a dumb decision to spend PC prices on hardware over the course of a gen for console-priced software, but how people want to blow their money is not my concern.

Team $750+

The problem is the price to performance ratio is way better on consoles than PC. You realize how much you'd need to spend on a PC to keep up with console specs? Also, if you own a PS5 you can easily sell it for at least $350 and put that towards a PS5 Pro. You are not getting PS5 Pro specs on a PC that costs $549 - $599.

 

[DirtyBast8rd]

Reminds me of Infamous Second Son. Game was a launch game and remains one of the best looking games of the PS4 gen.

Not everyone wants a PC though. PC has its own flaws that some don’t want to deal with.

As a recent starting pc player (console owner as well) I'm failing to see the pc flaws as opposed to consoles. I wish I would have got a pc sooner. I play from desk and couch the same way as on console. A wireless keyboard and mouse and a controller are all I need.

Now on topic, I will probably get a PS5 Pro because I can but I'm not really excited for it.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

More powerful hardware giving software more breathing room (and providing more freedom to devs) are facts, not "buzz words". There's not a single developer out there that wouldn't take more powerful hardware if it were offered to them.

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest here considering the fact that last time round developers were only full of praise and excitement for the pro consoles:

Call of Duty: WW2 Developer Calls PS4 Pro and Xbox One X ‘Incredible’

gamingbolt.com

Smaller company, higher stakes

In July, Adam Boyes left his role overseeing developer relations for PlayStation to rejoin the the developer ranks hims…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Watch_Dogs 2 Developer on PS4 Pro: "It's So Cool to See Your Work Look So Shiny and Spectacular"

www.dualshockers.com

'Farpoint' Developer Explains How the PS4 Pro Improves PlayStation VR Games

Sony revealed the PlayStation 4 Pro console at a press conference last week. With roughly 2.3X the graphical power of the original PS4, Sony stressed the ability to play games in 4K resolution, with HDR, if your television supports those formats. Using that extra power for PlayStation VR was

www.uploadvr.com

Being given more powerful hardware is always a net-positive for developers. If you want to be concerned about developers needing to do extra work when supporting a platform you might want to redirect your attention elsewhere.

I'm not concerned, and I figured you would try to redirect to something else. You're using marketing speak and probably unintentionally. We all do it. I'm sure the PS5 Pro will be a cool console. I'm also sure it will do nothing to improve creativity. The breathing room you speak of only applies to the PS5 Pro version of the game which is just additional work in the first place. Those 2 selling points you mentioned for the existence of the console are just empty words.

 

[GHG]

I'm not concerned, and I figured you would try to redirect to something else. You're using marketing speak and probably unintentionally. We all do it. I'm sure the PS5 Pro will be a cool console. I'm also sure it will do nothing to improve creativity. The breathing room you speak of only applies to the PS5 Pro version of the game which is just additional work in the first place. Those 2 selling points you mentioned for the existence of the console are just empty words.

I just listed a number of devs who stated exactly the same thing or words to similar effect.

Meanwhile you:

 

[HeWhoWalks]

"will do nothing to improve creativity"

Wait..... is this really a negative we're throwing at pro consoles now?

Thus, I'm curious, what is needed to improve creativity?

 

[chilichote]

I don't believe in 6 or 5nm. I believe in 4 or 3nm.

 

[Ronin_7]

Does the gpu not need to be the same GHz to ensure perfect parity with standard ps5 games?

It'll either be the same frequency or higher.

I love the tears of the broke people on paycheck to paycheck complaining same people that problem told themselves college would be a waste, DAMN couldn't be me.

Bring on the BEAST

 

[tommolb]

Glad this looks like it actually exists. I didn't bother buying a PS5 cos I expected a PS5 Pro to come along.