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[DForce]

It's a video game bruh, not world peace.

Welcome to a gaming forum.

People debate about games all the time.

 

[Boss Mog]

I'm gonna assume that most of those 12 million are people with gamepass that checked it out and dropped it, so not sure that really counts as "engagement" either.

 

[Damian black]

Just give us starslop's sales phil, how hard can it be? Unless you know...

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Selling games is always good for developers. It's never a bad thing.

Mind blowing isn't it?

They might be saving money on marketing cause gamepass offers free marketing.

Who knows?

How does this logic apply to BG3 which is still lighting up the Steam charts?

BG3 has immensely positive word of mouth. Casuals and people not interested in genre are jumping in.

Influencers are jumping up and down over features present in that game that have been incorporated in crpgs for 25+ years.

Meanwhile same people are running smear campaign against Starfield.

We all know that's paid marketing.

 

[Fredrik]

The game was made with a budget expecting full price sales on 3 platforms and that changed last minute to remove one platform and to be given for "free" on the other 2.
No matter how many players it has, it will always be a commercial failure.

Who cares? I’m not playing a balance sheet. And 12 million players is a big deal even if half drop it in 5 minutes. It’s a Netflix Originals type of title, it’s there to pull in more people into the ecosystem and grow Gamepass numbers and to be in the conversation.
And don’t forget Steam, the Steam release must’ve done alright going by initial player numbers which was above all their previous games.

 

[Red5]

Welcome to a gaming forum.

People debate about games all the time.

Yeah, but people don't have to take it personally or make it their whole life. See the sunlight, touch some grass. Platform fanboys are getting more annoying than Football ultras.

 

[DForce]

Yeah, but people don't have to take it personally or make it their whole life. Seen the sunlight, touch some grass. Platform fanboys are getting more annoying than Football ultras.

It's entertainment. It's funny to look back and laugh. It's not anywhere near my "whole life."

 

[Ar¢tos]

Who cares? I’m not playing a balance sheet. And 12 million players is a big deal even if half drop it in 5 minutes. It’s a Netflix Originals type of title, it’s there to pull in more people into the ecosystem and grow Gamepass numbers and to be in the conversation.
And don’t forget Steam, the Steam release must’ve done alright going by initial player numbers which was above all their previous games.

Grow gamepass?
We would need to know how many of those 12m players already had gamepass regardless of the game releasing or not, how many bought 1/2 months of gamepass just for the game and how many bought 1 year of gamepass just because of the game (this one would be the real growth).

 

[nowhat]

BG3 has immensely positive word of mouth. Casuals and people not interested in genre are jumping in.

Influencers are jumping up and down over features present in that game that have been incorporated in crpgs for 25+ years.

Meanwhile same people are running smear campaign against Starfield.

We all know that's paid marketing.

So Larian, by all accounts an independent developer/publisher, has more money to spend on marketing than Microsoft? Yeah, that makes total sense.

 

[GHG]

BG3 has immensely positive word of mouth. Casuals and people not interested in genre are jumping in.

Influencers are jumping up and down over features present in that game that have been incorporated in crpgs for 25+ years.

Meanwhile same people are running smear campaign against Starfield.

We all know that's paid marketing.

Ah ok, so now its all just some grand conspiracy against Starfield? Meanwhile all the positivity surrounding BG3 since release is paid for?

Gotcha.

 

[yazenov]

You overhyped it. You were bragging about it. If you do this then you better hope it lives up to the hype. If it doesn't, then you shouldn't be surprised if people are laughing about it later.

This is no different than basketball fans hyping up their team and then they end up losing in the playoffs. Live with the results.







Comment


Your reply.



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Your reply.

The usual suspects who were hyping this game like it's the game of the generation and now pleased with these underwhelming results. It's hilarious.

 

[Clintizzle]

Success factors according to some members of NeoGaf:
- Number of consoles sold worldwide at a loss
- Number of physical copies of games sold in the UK only.
- A single player game competing with the Top 10 most played multi-player games on Steam. Keeping in mind that 10 top list has been the same for years.
- Views on a instagram/ youtube video 4 hours after its been posted.

Please add any that I've forgotten.

Must also say that Xbox's "engagement" metric needs a lot of explanation, which, I'm pretty sure we're not getting anytime soon.

Oh and don't @ me with "BG3 is still top 10" - that game is an anomaly that deserves everyone's attention.

 

[Randall365]

I'm gonna assume that most of those 12 million are people with gamepass that checked it out and dropped it, so not sure that really counts as "engagement" either.

Nail>>>>>head

 

[Fredrik]

Grow gamepass?
We would need to know how many of those 12m players already had gamepass regardless of the game releasing or not, how many bought 1/2 months of gamepass just for the game and how many bought 1 year of gamepass just because of the game (this one would be the real growth).

Actually no we don’t, we know Gamepass grew, been reported on, and we know people still talk about the game, and more importantly we know people are still playing the game. It has dropped below Skyrim now on Steam concurrent players (Skyrim was lower too before it started going up) but as you said it’s ”free” on 2 platforms and Phil says it’s in the top 10 most played games. And remember this is 3 months after release. I assume it’s doing quite well.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

So Larian, by all accounts an independent developer/publisher, has more money to spend on marketing than Microsoft? Yeah, that makes total sense.

They just paid a billion $ to developers. Xbox is profitable so they must be doing something unusual.

Business - Phil Spencer - "We've put a lot of money into the market, over a billion dollars a year supporting third-party games coming into Game Pass"

revenue doesn't mean anything. Uber makes billions in revenue too but they have been bleeding money for years.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Daneel Elijah]

They might be saving money on marketing cause gamepass offers free marketing.

Who knows?



BG3 has immensely positive word of mouth. Casuals and people not interested in genre are jumping in.

Influencers are jumping up and down over features present in that game that have been incorporated in crpgs for 25+ years.

Meanwhile same people are running smear campaign against Starfield.

We all know that's paid marketing.

I should not answer in this thread because honestly 12 millions is a good number(outside of the expectations for more of course) for a game limited to the X/S consoles and PC, as we know that only 20+ millions of consoles can play the game, and that it also represent the most part of Gamepass users. But I can't help it. I understand that you liked Starfield. Good for you. But to the point of ignoring the hundreds tens of thousands of people who are unhappy about the game on Steam and others storefronts and social medias and calling it smear campaign? Starfield is down to 65% by the way. BG3 got positive word of mouth because the game is good. Starfield did not get that. We can discuss about why, but I prefer be happy for Larian and wait for when Starfield fix what they lack to go there, or let modders do it for them, if what make so many people unhappy about this game can be fixed of course.

Once again, smear campaign? Paid marketing against Starfield? Why go there? There is great games like Alpha Protocol, Spec ops the line that did not get the respect they deserve from the mass market. There is games like Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Halo Infinite that lost a lot of goodwill because they got shipped early and not ready, and/or around a masterpiece. It happens. Some games are just divisive because they are not for everyone. I loved Death stranding, and can understand why some do not. But please do not go that way. Starfield promised more than what we got. And did not have some things present in crpgs for 25+ years like maps. Skyrim did some things better than Starfield, like exploration, and there is a reason there is almost as many people playing Skyrim than people playing Starfield right now on Steam.

 

[jm89]

They just paid a billion $ to developers. Xbox is profitable so they must be doing something unusual.

Business - Phil Spencer - "We've put a lot of money into the market, over a billion dollars a year supporting third-party games coming into Game Pass"

revenue doesn't mean anything. Uber makes billions in revenue too but they have been bleeding money for years.

www.neogaf.com

You honestly think those billions they are spending are coming from the Xbox division and they still stay profitable?

It's all being propped up by the parent company

 

[nowhat]

They just paid a billion $ to developers. Xbox is profitable so they must be doing something unusual.

Business - Phil Spencer - "We've put a lot of money into the market, over a billion dollars a year supporting third-party games coming into Game Pass"

revenue doesn't mean anything. Uber makes billions in revenue too but they have been bleeding money for years.

www.neogaf.com

...how is this in any way related to BG3's success being supposedly due to "paid marketing"?

 

[GHG]

They just paid a billion $ to developers. Xbox is profitable so they must be doing something unusual.

Business - Phil Spencer - "We've put a lot of money into the market, over a billion dollars a year supporting third-party games coming into Game Pass"

revenue doesn't mean anything. Uber makes billions in revenue too but they have been bleeding money for years.

www.neogaf.com

That's nice.

What's that got to do with what he or you previously said?

 

[MasterCornholio]

They might be saving money on marketing cause gamepass offers free marketing.

Who knows?

Gamepass doesn't sell games though. Don't see what the connection is.

 

[Fredrik]

Starfield promised more than what we got.

You sure about that?
Go check Alanah Pearce video where she go through every aspect of the showcase and compare with what was in the game. Was a thread about it awhile ago.
In short she stated that we got more or less exactly what they said we would get. Just minor differences.
People simply let their expectations run wild while waiting and some ended up in disappointment.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

You sure about that?
Go check Alanah Pearce video where she go through every aspect of the showcase and compare with what was in the game. Was a thread about it awhile ago.
In short she stated that we got more or less exactly what they said we would get. Just minor differences.
People simply let their expectations run wild while waiting and some ended up in disappointment.

I admit that I did let my expectations run wild. But the game has so much potential. Skyrim in space should have at least the same kind of exploration that Skyrim had. With lots and lots of stuff to find, not the limited and too repetitive procedural labs and complexes that we got. Why make a game next gen only but use a outdated loading tech? If GTA 3 and No man's sky can make a seamless world, Starfield shoud do it too. But you are not wrong. Starfield did not made false promises. Just tried to made us think they had. But this is what marketing is, so good for them.

 

[Fabieter]

I played it through steam family sharing. Do I count as well .

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yeah, but people don't have to take it personally or make it their whole life. See the sunlight, touch some grass. Platform fanboys are getting more annoying than Football ultras.

My life mission was decided from birth when god first spoke to me

"Thou art love PlayStation and shit on thy enemies exclusives"

I didn't understand who my enemies were at the time, only visions of green four legged virmin

 

[demigod]

Immaterial.

Starfield is a new ip. Not a derivative game. Far more exciting.

Bethesda is increasing its skill set with it.

They need to further improve it, but expected when your game is pioneering.

Cyberpunk was a new ip too. Would you like to compare sales of the 2 champ?

 

[Auto_aim1]

Isn't this just Gamepass members downloading and playing the game?

 

[xrnzaaas]

I'd love to see the statistics how many people have spent more than 10 hours with this game. The achievement stats posted earlier suggest it's not looking that good (as expected).

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I should not answer in this thread because honestly 12 millions is a good number(outside of the expectations for more of course) for a game limited to the X/S consoles and PC, as we know that only 20+ millions of consoles can play the game, and that it also represent the most part of Gamepass users. But I can't help it. I understand that you liked Starfield. Good for you. But to the point of ignoring the hundreds tens of thousands of people who are unhappy about the game on Steam and others storefronts and social medias and calling it smear campaign? Starfield is down to 65% by the way. BG3 got positive word of mouth because the game is good. Starfield did not get that. We can discuss about why, but I prefer be happy for Larian and wait for when Starfield fix what they lack to go there, or let modders do it for them, if what make so many people unhappy about this game can be fixed of course.

Once again, smear campaign? Paid marketing against Starfield? Why go there? There is great games like Alpha Protocol, Spec ops the line that did not get the respect they deserve from the mass market. There is games like Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Halo Infinite that lost a lot of goodwill because they got shipped early and not ready, and/or around a masterpiece. It happens. Some games are just divisive because they are not for everyone. I loved Death stranding, and can understand why some do not. But please do not go that way. Starfield promised more than what we got. And did not have some things present in crpgs for 25+ years like maps. Skyrim did some things better than Starfield, like exploration, and there is a reason there is almost as many people playing Skyrim than people playing Starfield right now on Steam.

You probably haven't seen coverage of Starfield by influencers on YouTube.

Normally, this type of game needs to be celebrated. This is Super Mario 64 moment for open world games. We are going into space.

Yet here we are. Very little about game is being discussed. Mostly it's zoomed in pics of bulging eyes npcs. That's basically trolling from big YouTube channels.

Did Nintendo achieve perfection with SM64 in first attempt? No, it took few iterations. Starfield is in same situation. Formula needs some work but it's a breakthrough.

Cyberpunk was a new ip too. Would you like to compare sales of the 2 champ?

I normally don't discuss sales. A lot of people bought it to test their new RTX pcs. There are lot of factors that go into this, pointless exercise.

 

[Raonak]

12 million feels a bit low when gamepass has like 25+ mil subscribers.

I would've tought majority of gamepass users would download it.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This is Super Mario 64 moment for loading games. We're going to the menus

FTFY

 

[knguyen]

That interview almost looked like it was staged: you're gonna ask this, then this. And I am gonna try to sound super excited and energetic about starfield as much as possible.

 

[demigod]

I normally don't discuss sales. A lot of people bought it to test their new RTX pcs. There are lot of factors that go into this, pointless exercise.

Proof? Or you just pulling that out of your ass as usual?

 

[Daneel Elijah]

You probably haven't seen coverage of Starfield by influencers on YouTube.

Normally, this type of game needs to be celebrated. This is Super Mario 64 moment for open world games. We are going into space.

Yet here we are. Very little about game is being discussed. Mostly it's zoomed in pics of bulging eyes npcs. That's basically trolling from big YouTube channels.

Did Nintendo achieve perfection with SM64 in first attempt? No, it took few iterations. Starfield is in same situation. Formula needs some work but it's a breakthrough.



I normally don't discuss sales. A lot of people bought it to test their new RTX pcs. There are lot of factors that go into this, pointless exercise.

It is rare to see on Youtube people willing to discuss in good faith and in depth about games. Especially the big youtubers, who caters to the young and needs to keep them invested with overexagerrations and chase ads more than any kind of veracity. But it may happen. See this god of war video that I really liked. If you have a good analysis of Starfield, please post it as it will do more good IMHO than just insulting people that just do their jobs. I love Mighty Keef and NikTek for example but I understand that they are just making us laugh a little. I prefer looking at speed runs explanations, post mortems for games and stuff like that on youtube, because we all know that big youtubers will always be looking for pleasing their audience and follow the trends as they should.

This being said, Starfield gave them the weapons to be ridiculized with, like Halo gave us Craig and Spiderman 2( for the sake of"fairness") was more bugged than it should. Skyrim was out for the PS3/360 era. If they had done their job correctly, we would have been playing Starfield in the PS4/Xbox One gen, and hopefully a lot of the complaints would have been not as prevalent as they are now. GTA 6 will have the same problem IMHO, but I am confiant that they will find a way to surprise us. I hope so at least. Going back to Starfield, you compared it to Mario 64. What mario 64 did is making the rules about 3d plarforming. There is a before and after. Clones. That sort of things. I fail to see what Starfield had done to be considered that good.
Around 2015 a few games wanted to give us space exploration and freedom. Star citizen, no man sky, Andromeda... I liked the failed kickstarter attempt Limit theory, made by one guy, who abandonned the game after years of work. Starfield is a massive new IP, and for that alone should deserve praise. But for many reasons, not limited to but including becoming a Xbox exclusive and being hurt by this new identity, being late to the party, being overshadowed by BG3 it did not get the praise and mass market reach that we hoped for. It happens. Once again I loved death stranding but understand that it is not for all gamers. If Bethesda work on it it may redeem itself, but they have to recognise first that people are not happy.

 

[mckmas8808]

An additional 2 million in 2 months is nothing to sneeze at either though.

It's a horrible number. It's Bethesda Games Studios man. Not some medium sized AA game maker.

Are they still counting me, who played it for 10 minutes, or my friend, who played it for 30, or are they only considering players with bigger engagement than that?

Yes they are and MS is weird like that. If you click on the icon to "start" the game, you are counted as a "played the game" gamer.

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is Super Mario 64 moment for open world games. We are going into space.

Here we go again with hyperbole… this is exactly what smashes against the game being composed of fish bowls connected by loading screens and menus.

Swiss Todd: “You see gamers, delivering Skyrim in space is like making love to a beautiful woman. You need to role play, explore her depths, and visit new worlds with her*.

*If you do not like it well it is your fault for thinking about it being Skyrim in Space

 

[DenchDeckard]

12 Mill is awesome. Can't wait for rhe mods and dlc.

Such a great cosy game to sit and sink hours into. I hope the dlc continues to have surprises that you don't expect. Outside of the standard questlines etc

 

[Panajev2001a]

This being said, Starfield gave them the weapons to be ridiculized with, like Halo gave us Craig and Spiderman 2( for the sake of"fairness") was more bugged than it should. Skyrim was out for the PS3/360 era. If they had done their job correctly, we would have been playing Starfield in the PS4/Xbox One gen, and hopefully a lot of the complaints would have been not as prevalent as they are now.

Current Starfield seems like an XSX remaster. It is not bad, but not something close to what was expected out of an exclusive game IMHO.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm curious how many actual units it moved. At least half of those twelve million players could be sales.

I think it probably is at 6 million sold.

No announcements on 5-10 million milestones so I doubt it even sold 5 mil.

I thought we knew it did close to 5 million within the first month. But maybe I'm wrong.

Forza Horizon 5 Passes 15 Million Players In Two Months

Microsoft's racing game continues to build momentum.

www.gamespot.com

I said a few months ago that Starfield was behind Forza Horizon 5 in player count.

It took 3 months to reach 12 million players while it took Forza 5 2 months to reach 15 million players.

I'd love to see a line graph for the trajectory of both of these games.

So it caused zero growth in Gamepass and sold a fraction of what a Bethesda mainline game should basically

How do you know that there has been zero growth in Game Pass this year?

 

[mckmas8808]

Not even half are reaching level 5? And ~27% didn't even bother to go into space. Oh boy.

How long does it take to get to level 5? Does anybody know?

 

[SmokSmog]

Can someone photoshop Phil's face (just face) on this meme?

 

[Horseganador]

12 million players...and now only 16k on Steam (even Skyrim has more people), what a failure.

 

[Thirty7ven]

That's normal though, lots of people don't give two shits about an RPG. Remember in 2021 - 1 million playstation players played CoD exclusively, not even trying one other game.

That’s like… under 1% of all PlayStation players.

 

[Fredrik]

I admit that I did let my expectations run wild.

Oh I did too. I was expecting the space flights themselves to be actual adventures, grav jumps being interrupted by asteroid fields I had to cross and doing space walks fixing damaged engines and living with a crew like Firefly and alien races to talk to not just monster aliens to slaughter etc. I didn’t get any of that.

It was a 7.5 at first for me mostly because of my expectations.

In the end the positives outweigh the negatives for me. I enjoy parts of the game much more than I thought I would, the combat and spaceship builder and outpost building in particular which I had zero expectations for, and mods are slowly improving the experience with new mods arriving every day. For me it’s now a 9/10 and my most played game of the year.

 

[Klayzer]

And someone has to immediately rush to create a post about every thing he says. People seem to hang on his every word. Obviously they love it.

You could also say, people rush in to defend/deflect whatever he says as well. Plus the people that hates Phil topics, but posts multiple times in every Phil thread.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Proof? Or you just pulling that out of your ass as usual?

Don't have. Cannot be tracked.

That's why I said sales is complicated topic. Just like how people argue review scores.

It is rare to see on Youtube people willing to discuss in good faith and in depth about games. Especially the big youtubers, who caters to the young and needs to keep them invested with overexagerrations and chase ads more than any kind of veracity. But it may happen. See this god of war video that I really liked. If you have a good analysis of Starfield, please post it as it will do more good IMHO than just insulting people that just do their jobs. I love Mighty Keef and NikTek for example but I understand that they are just making us laugh a little. I prefer looking at speed runs explanations, post mortems for games and stuff like that on youtube, because we all know that big youtubers will always be looking for pleasing their audience and follow the trends as they should.

This being said, Starfield gave them the weapons to be ridiculized with, like Halo gave us Craig and Spiderman 2( for the sake of"fairness") was more bugged than it should. Skyrim was out for the PS3/360 era. If they had done their job correctly, we would have been playing Starfield in the PS4/Xbox One gen, and hopefully a lot of the complaints would have been not as prevalent as they are now. GTA 6 will have the same problem IMHO, but I am confiant that they will find a way to surprise us. I hope so at least. Going back to Starfield, you compared it to Mario 64. What mario 64 did is making the rules about 3d plarforming. There is a before and after. Clones. That sort of things. I fail to see what Starfield had done to be considered that good.
Around 2015 a few games wanted to give us space exploration and freedom. Star citizen, no man sky, Andromeda... I liked the failed kickstarter attempt Limit theory, made by one guy, who abandonned the game after years of work. Starfield is a massive new IP, and for that alone should deserve praise. But for many reasons, not limited to but including becoming a Xbox exclusive and being hurt by this new identity, being late to the party, being overshadowed by BG3 it did not get the praise and mass market reach that we hoped for. It happens. Once again I loved death stranding but understand that it is not for all gamers. If Bethesda work on it it may redeem itself, but they have to recognise first that people are not happy.

Not even a single video I have seen discusses it's flaws and achievements.

Just made up BS flaws mostly.

I get steam review scores. People downvoting it cause it's not perfect makes sense. But professional reviews should highlight every aspect of it.

Here we go again with hyperbole… this is exactly what smashes against the game being composed of fish bowls connected by loading screens and menus.

Swiss Todd: “You see gamers, delivering Skyrim in space is like making love to a beautiful woman. You need to role play, explore her depths, and visit new worlds with her*.

*If you do not like it well it is your fault for thinking about it being Skyrim in Space

If it's so easy to make, there would be a ton of developers making it, right?

Oh wait, they are busy copying Witcher 3, a much simpler game mechanically and system wise.

 

[GHG]

Just made up BS flaws mostly.

More delusion.

The flaws in Starfield are very real and apparent.

Oh wait, they are busy copying Witcher 3, a much simpler game mechanically and system wise.

The fuck are you talking about?

BG3 is an evolution of the Divinity OS games which are far from being "simple" in a mechanical sense. They are literally immersive sims in RPG form. There is very little it shares in common with the Witcher 3.

You really need to start playing more games, preferably not those that are shat out by Microsoft or on to gamepass.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

More delusion.

The flaws in Starfield are very real and apparent.



The fuck are you talking about?

BG3 is an evolution of the Divinity OS games which are far from being "simple" in a mechanical sense. They are literally immersive sims in RPG form. There is very little it shares in common with the Witcher 3.

You really need to start playing more games, preferably not those that are shat out by Microsoft or on to gamepass.

Damn that fast edit.

Even before I could download a gif.

 

[GHG]

Damn that fast edit.

Even before I could download a gif.

The only thing I edited was to add the following statement:

There is very little it shares in common with the Witcher 3.

 

[graywolf323]

The usual suspects who were hyping this game like it's the game of the generation and now pleased with these underwhelming results. It's hilarious.

all while also trying to gaslight the rest of us that no one was ever hyping Starfield glad to see that some of them are getting called out with receipts

 

[Ceadeus]

Is this thread made by a 12 years old kid?

Anyway, I played Starfield for *check Steam* 35 hours and dropped it for now. It's just not that engaging.

Fallout 76 is more engaging imo. I really couldn't get into Starfield. All these years of hype, can you imagine.