whyamihere
Banned
A CURSE UPON YOUR HOUSE
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Trump claims he will veto single payer bill if it crosses his desk.
- Thread starter studyguy
- Start date
Right? All he cares about, literally, is outdoing Obama. Get rid of privatized healthcare, slap your name on it, boom, Obamacare forgotten.
Now we have to butter him up to where he'd be just smart enough not to veto
E-Cat
Member
I mean, any discussion on "how much will it cost" for the average person seems pretty much moot until someone actually runs the numbers of what's the tradeoff between increased taxes vs factoring in no more insurance premiums, deductibles and co-pays. You may actually end up making money for all you know.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
I'm not very (at all) knowledgeable on health care systems. Where does the money for single payer come from? All just taken from taxes? I make 40k a year would i pay significantly more than I do now? I just don't see how giving a bunch of people insurance who can't already afford it somehow makes it less expensive. You've got a lot of deducting where it wasn't before. Also with all the lawsuits brought against doctors who have to pay out the ass for legal protection because they're supposed to never make a mistake apparently doesn't this result in lower wages for them making their loans more difficult to pay? The math doesn't seem to add up. I know it works in countries with less people but wondering how the US government who has racked up a huge dept and bungled social security by borrowing its funds for so many years can be trusted with such a momentous task of 300m people's health insurance.
And this is an honest question guys I'm just bringing up the opposing points I hear. I'm not against or attached to this idea
And this is an honest question guys I'm just bringing up the opposing points I hear. I'm not against or attached to this idea
Something something bootstraps, freeloading moochers...
It would help minorities and the poor.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Only way to pay for it is with very significant tax increases for everyone. At least that seems like the only way it can be paid for.
It's not like there are no downsides at all. And the US isn't every other developed nation. It will be expensive, a lot of people will lose their jobs, and while that is all going on it will have to prove its the superior option before it can be dismantled.
Being against single payer doesn't necessarily mean you are against the goal, the execution matters. Personally, I don't think it should be handled at the national level but start at the state level.
That being said, introducing the bill and Trump vetoing it aren't bad things, get people on record and let voters do what they want with that information.
Where does the money come from? Taxes, yes.
Not sure whether you'd pay significantly more or not, but overall people would pay less for healthcare. Yes, most would pay more in taxes, but people just somehow forget that at that point they're then not paying for healthcare and that at that point healthcare is cheaper.
Single payer is less expensive because there's actually pressure to be less expensive. You create a monopsony. Everyone is competing for the government's dollars and if they get too expensive or ask too much then the market will fuck them over. Currently with our system there's almost no real healthcare controls, transparency, or power to pressure lower costs and so we spend the most of any developed nation in the world.
As for physicians and their loans... well... one would hope we also move to a system where we get rid of most loans, too, just like other developed countries.
"Bungling" social security is, was, and will forever remain a political decision not an actual problem with the system. We could have social security forever if we demand it. republicans don't want us to demand it so they keep saying it's broken.
How much more would it cost than my premiums?
Plus my employer wouldn't have to kick in anymore. It could trickle down and they could pay me more!
gutter_trash
Banned
brainwashing
Yes, take Trump's side on this. The correct side of history.
Yep. Even lots of people on the left have been brainwashed to be against it just because of who is pushing for it
shnurgleton
Member
Single payer isn't the only way to implement universal healthcare, and it'd never get passed even with a democratic majority.
No one can give that specific of an answer. It would probably get phased in gradually and take some time to stabilize and really would depend on your premiums, your employer contribution, your age/health/state, your income, etc. There are just so many factors with the switch.
What we do know is that a single payer system is far more efficient than our current one and given time we all collectively should be spending less on healthcare overall and be better off. Will there be a few here and there that might get fucked over by this? Probably. But collectively we'll be much much better off.
Single payer would be too expensive
The United States pays more per capita than any other country on Earth for health care
Single payer would be too expensive
I love the people
Hillary thinks this country works best with leadership between center left and center right
But don't you dare call her supporters "centrists" goddammit
The United States pays more per capita than any other country on Earth for health care
Single payer would be too expensive
I love the people
Hillary thinks this country works best with leadership between center left and center right
But don't you dare call her supporters "centrists" goddammit
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
I'm not sure if anyone really knows. Personally I'm not completely against it. I would need to see some actual research on the costs, how it would work, and be paid for. Single payer can't be much worse than what we have now so I would probably be easily convinced. I just don't know enough to have a strong opinion either way.
But to answer the question I responded to taxes are exactly the reason why. It's easy to miss the connection that we would no longer be paying 400+ a month to insure our families and that might subsidize the increase in taxes we would see on our checks. That giant tax increase is scary though. Real sticker shock value.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Health insurance companies make a lot of money and single payer would cause them to make less money.
It would also come with cost controls on medical providers and would prevent doctors from price gouging patients. Doctors do not want this.
Or we could fairly tax the one percent and then pay for single payer, infrastructure, housing and world hunger with some left over
Zombie James
Banned
He just called affordable health care a curse. Yup.
KillerMan91
Member
You guys already use a lot of tax money per capita to healthcare (actually Norway only is ahead).
Working single payer shouldn't cost that much more than the clusterfuck you currently have.
tkscz
Member
No, not with the way our tax money is currently being handled. They barely use tax money to pay our debt, let alone use it for healthcare.
Randolph Freelander
Member
We could spend all day worrying about how on earth will we ever pay for healthcare and other necessary items, oh dear, what ever will we do
Or....
We could just decide to spend money on these things and increase taxes only as inflation rears its ugly head and only to the degree necessary to combat it, and do so as progressively as possible in order to fight wealth inequality.
Or....
We could just decide to spend money on these things and increase taxes only as inflation rears its ugly head and only to the degree necessary to combat it, and do so as progressively as possible in order to fight wealth inequality.
legacyzero
Banned
Let's not forget that Trump advocated for Single Payer SEVERAL times
http://ijr.com/2016/02/537107-5-times-donald-trump-praised-socialized-healthcare/
http://ijr.com/2016/02/537107-5-times-donald-trump-praised-socialized-healthcare/
BertramCooper
Banned
I actually don't believe him on this.
I think the man would sign virtually anything that manages to hit his desk.
I think the man would sign virtually anything that manages to hit his desk.
BotoxAgent
Member
single payer is never gonna happen until the politics and the lobbying cycle of Washington changes
Yeah, it just seems that whenever people play the "but the higher taxes" card they don't think about how they won't have premiums taken out of their check anymore.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Anyone see if he was blinking while saying this?
This in a nutshell seems to be it, I get the reasoning from those groups but not for the citizens who seem to side with then
That's because he has no idea what he's talking about.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Because they're idiots.
I pay 7.3% of my monthly wage for healthcare and that's it. Not sure how one can think of it as a curse.
Amory
Member
Yeah but for a lot of people the difference with single payer could be where that money comes from.You guys already use a lot of tax money per capita to healthcare (actually Norway only is ahead).
Working single player shouldn't cost that much more than the clusterfuck you currently have.
I've got good insurance and my premiums are very low. My employer pays for almost all of it. Single payer would almost certainly shift a lot of that cost back over to me. And I dont see a pay raise coming to offset that.
Mihos
Gold Member
I would lose the coverage I have and pay more in taxes. Pretty much that simple.
Mihos
Gold Member
this.
Not to mention, LOL if you think single payer is covering anything touching abortion, transgender, insert_your_cause care
LegendofJoe
Member
Everyone not in poverty would pay a decent chunk of their earnings towards this. But that money is already being spent by your employer and you so it wouldn't be that much of a change in net terms. Over time though? Yeah, the average person and every business that isn't in healthcare would be significantly better off financially.
If you lose your job tomorrow and then need major surgery next month?
Single payer you get to focus on your health and recovery and not worry about losing all you have worked for.
Single payer. Everyone is covered. Taxes cover it. Medical insurance is free.
Multi payer. Everyone is covered. To an extend. It does not cover 100 percent of the costs. Taxation is going to be lower, but the poor will get fucked over a bit. People can buy extra insurance to cover costs. The big thing about multi payer, is that is keeps the private insurance industry in charge.
Our government is currently controlled by a group whose only real unifying ethos is that government fucking sucks. More than half our country believes the government is terrible and can't do anything and that's why they vote for them.
"The government sucks" is the reason to be against it for like 95% of the people who are against it. I guarantee it.
What about people without jobs? What if you lose your job tomorrow and get sick? (hypothetically)
The phrase "tax increase" is probably the most caustic of all phrases to the majority of Americans, regardless of amount or affected tax bracket. The other is "government-run" because ours is considered incompetent in all things, bloated beyond belief, and socialism is bad because fuck commies.
In my ideal world a shift to single payer would come with some big regulations to almost force the loss of premiums straight onto workers' paychecks.
Similar threads
- Locked